Transcript

AJ (00:26.738)
Hey everyone, welcome once again to Podcast in Death, the weekly podcast where we discuss the In Death series of books by JD Robb. I am AJ. And this is episode 277 of Podcast in Death. And in this episode, we are going to be talking about Framed in Death.

Tara (00:35.981)
Terra.

Tara (00:46.872)
Yes, the newest in death book.

AJ (00:49.334)
Yeah, and Tara apparently liked it quite a bit.

Tara (00:54.372)
I very specifically really enjoyed the last couple of chapters. Yes, I think the overall book felt like a pretty solid installment in the series, but particularly those last couple of chapters, was like, okay, because I don’t know that I was like, I guess that’s solid. I was like, it’s good, whatever.

AJ (01:01.014)
I think that’s what that’s what everybody’s saying.

AJ (01:10.423)
Right.

AJ (01:21.922)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (01:22.552)
And then we got to the end of the book and I was like, okay, I loved the end of the book. so it was worth it to go through some, like, I personally didn’t like spending as much time with the killer that we did. That’s me though, and that’s part of her process, so that’s fine. I did enjoy seeing the house. And one of my favorite things about this book is actually,

AJ (01:26.976)
Yeah, the ending was really, really good.

AJ (01:37.986)
Yeah.

AJ (01:46.67)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (01:52.51)
Eve, I’ve really been a kind of just made like a, I don’t know, a discovery, I guess about Eve. And it was this book that I made the discovery. But I don’t think that this is the book that this is like, that this happened in or whatever. And when I say that, I mean, like, Eve being more open to a softer, her softer side coming out.

AJ (02:06.946)
Okay.

AJ (02:20.205)
Yeah, yeah.

Tara (02:20.803)
I think what I’m pretty sure we’re probably gonna get reviews would be like what happened to the kick-ass you’ve Dallas whatever and here’s the thing is like that is literally the whole fucking point of this series is for this traumatized woman who was so Alone for so long even in times where she wasn’t alone, but she didn’t understand how to not be alone She is slowly becoming more and more comfortable of being

AJ (02:26.237)
hahahaha

AJ (02:32.205)
Right.

Tara (02:47.885)
Vulnerable around the people that she trusts. She’s not like she’s not out here patting anyone’s head of someone she doesn’t fucking know but like she Wanting to have a cookout at the end people are like that’s so not even like obviously work makes those jokes But at the same time it’s like Eve this is just you going I’d like to spend time with my with my squad with my friends because like

AJ (02:54.989)
Right.

Tara (03:13.761)
You know, you saw like the friend dynamic of that second victim and all this stuff. this is just Eve living her fucking life. And it’s I think it’s very lovely in this book. I think was a little more on the nose about it. But I think she’s been again, I think she’s been slowly getting there over and over. And we’ve seen bits of it here and there over the last several books, honestly, literally since like the middle of, you know, their second year of marriage. Like they just I feel like

AJ (03:17.998)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (03:27.105)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (03:32.61)
Yeah.

AJ (03:42.221)
Right.

Tara (03:42.582)
It’s always been heading this way and it’s I guess I’m I guess I’m just kind of like I like that it was very blatant in this one I just liked that because you know what we need that sometime and you think softer does not mean she’s not kick-ass and I I think that for me that was just very That was a part of this book that I really really enjoyed and you got that. So Yeah

AJ (03:50.391)
Right.

AJ (03:56.066)
Yeah.

AJ (04:07.106)
We kind of said it in the last episode when we did Echoes that I felt like she was a little softer in that book as well. But there are some cases that don’t require Kick Ass Eve, right? This is one of those.

Tara (04:24.887)
Yeah, like this guy is so fucking pathetic. Come on. Not like. So, so, you know, so you just thought it was OK. So.

AJ (04:28.95)
Yeah, he really is pathetic. You were, you were correct.

AJ (04:39.214)
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, you know, I thought it was okay. I did like the last couple of episodes episode. Yes, exactly. I did like the last couple of chapters, but overall, thought it was just okay, you know. So, but a lot of people seem to like it and but mostly the the last couple of chapters.

Tara (04:46.741)
This is how podcasters talk

Tara (05:03.875)
That’s great.

AJ (05:08.968)
and, and in terms of a theme, the one that I came up with was essentially, rejection or denial or lack of denial and not denials in that you’re denying yourself, but other people denying you. That’s something that this guy didn’t have. And Roark says at the end, I’d lay a healthy wager that he’s rarely heard the word no. And.

Tara (05:37.9)
it and work is very correct. I want to like I also just want to comment a little bit about the like, first of all, I think this theme is 10,000 % correct. At least that’s what I’m feeling. But I was going to comment on the the artist part of this and the rejection and all of that. One, the contrast to

AJ (05:40.033)
Yeah.

Yes.

AJ (06:01.934)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (06:05.161)
Eve and Roarke, and even like when Peabody says at the end, like, you know, when Eve is like, I know it’s weird coming from me talking about money or whatever. And Peabody is like, Roarke is the most generous person I know, which I know lots of billionaires who could take a hint from that. Anyway, I think I think that there’s something to be said about also there absolutely is something to be said about also like, we know Roarke’s backstory, we can take we’ll take Eve out of it because she does literally just

does not compute as a as billionaire she is like that’s just not how she operates. And work absolutely is like I’m not gonna I’m not gonna settle for less than what I want. And if that means you know he’s just wearing like every suit he owns is worth forty five thousand dollars then he’s working he can do that. But also he’s going to like generously pay all of these L.C. interview. And that’s I mean like that’s just in this book like we don’t even need to go you know.

AJ (06:38.776)
Right.

AJ (06:59.223)
Right.

Tara (07:03.809)
like talk about all of the wonderful things he has done and been generous with, with his money. But like, then you think about from from this artist perspective. So I’m an artist. I’m not an exceptionally, and you’re an artist. We are not like, we are not the best known artists in the world. What we’re out here doing things, something that we love. And I can I can relate and you can probably relate to this idea of

AJ (07:17.72)
So am I.

Tara (07:32.288)
loving what you’re doing so much and having so much like of and I I have I definitely have moments from just like This is hurting me more than than I think it should because I care so much like if I if I don’t get a role if I feel like my What what I have given is not being appreciated enough that that that I’ve worked so hard and I feel constantly overlooked and I don’t I’m sure that you can relate to

AJ (07:45.196)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (08:01.987)
to some, if not all of this, you know, and like, I am very passionate about the stuff that I do. Obviously I am, I do not get paid for it. I have made, I have, you know, been doing theater for 30 years. I have collectively made maybe $5,000 doing theater. And that includes two productions that were an entire like 16 week run of eight shows.

AJ (08:02.722)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (08:27.107)
So like, that’s not a lot of money. That’s not a lot of money. The last professional gig I did, I made like $600. And I wrote a whole fucking play with these people. We don’t have a lot of money to go around in theater and this kind of stuff that wants to you know, that wants to grow the art form or whatever. And that’s because we still love it. We’re doing it because we love it. And this guy and his like obsessive need,

AJ (08:29.483)
Right. Right.

Tara (08:55.555)
to be accepted or whatever does like at the end of the day, like, okay. But because he’s a rich little entitled fucker whose mommy has always been like, but you can have everything you want, darling. That is, by the way, something we see very much still in the theater community is like, oh, people making their way into things because of who their mommy is and who they’re, you know, what kind of influence they have. Like this is

AJ (09:05.347)
Ha ha ha.

AJ (09:22.828)
Yeah.

Tara (09:24.547)
This is absolutely paralleled to this kind of thing. And this guy just obviously is taking it way too far. You are allowed to be sad that you’re rejected. You are not allowed to murder people. Like, just, it is wild to me. And I’m just like, I too feel very passionate about my art. And I too sometimes I’m like, I definitely feel like I am better than this person. And guess what? I probably am not.

AJ (09:30.733)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (09:40.632)
Yeah.

Tara (09:53.444)
probably just not understanding it, but maybe I am. Okay, I have not killed anyone.

AJ (09:59.361)
Right, exactly. Yeah.

Tara (10:00.899)
Also, I would never get away with it. I am the worst liar and most awkward human being. So there is that. But like, it’s just, I was like, well, I really respect that you’re passionate about your art, but my guy. Yeah.

AJ (10:05.474)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

AJ (10:14.434)
Yeah, yeah. It is, and I think we’ve talked about it before on the show, there is a certain amount of entitlement within the art and entertainment industry as people, because it’s full of people who are kind of what we would consider to be NEPO babies. And…

Tara (10:30.329)
yes.

Tara (10:38.861)
Yes.

AJ (10:39.788)
That’s not what we have here necessarily, but we kind of do, you know? And I remember this doesn’t have anything to do with anything, but it kind of, it kind of relates. Just recently I saw this video and this, and it was kind of like sold as, you know, this Disneyland worker.

says something during the creation of what they have now, the Cars Land because of the Cars movie. This Disneyland worker says something during the making of the Cars Land that changed how the Cars Land runs or changed something in Cars Land or created something in Cars Land because this Disneyland worker spoke up and said something.

Tara (11:09.389)
Mm-hmm. Ooh, yeah.

AJ (11:30.568)
and come to find out when the video happened and they start saying what the situation was, the man that created, the Disney creator that created Cars, the movie, and a lot of those like Toy Story and that his name is John Lasseter, the Disney worker was his fucking son.

So they’re selling this thing as this Disney worker said something and it became, and it’s like, yeah, the only reason why he was fucking there to say the thing was because he’s John Lasseter’s son and they let him in while they were developing this thing. And it’s not like he didn’t have a great idea. What he said was a great idea. But the way they were kind of selling it was, but this was just a guy.

Tara (12:17.869)
Sure.

AJ (12:24.768)
And it’s like, but you have to understand that just the guy was put into that situation because he’s not just a guy. He’s a guy who’s connected to somebody higher up in Disney. So like, this is kind of the situation we have here. This is not just a guy, you know. He’s connected to a wealthy family who…

Tara (12:47.137)
powerful family that have, yeah.

AJ (12:48.106)
Yeah, you know, and so he’s got this total sense of entitlement. I’m not saying that people that are Nepo babies or whatever, you know, but you always hear it. Like, you know, but I worked hard. I worked hard to get where I am. And you go, yeah, but you could work other people who are not connected can work equally hard and get nowhere.

Tara (13:14.819)
And that’s part of that whole rejection process, right? Like this guy has never been told no. So when he starts hearing no, it’s like this angry reaction. But here’s the thing is like that is whether you are a nepo baby or not, like, you know, I can’t think of any of the, Drew Barrymore is not the most talented actress out there, but she’s also not terrible, you know, whatever. Some people might think she is, whatever.

AJ (13:18.466)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (13:40.855)
Right.

Tara (13:44.768)
every also artists like subjective so fucking deal with it. But like, if you are going to put yourself out there creatively, and you’re not willing to accept rejection ever. Like it’s it’s one thing if you’re like, I haven’t been like I haven’t you know, like I’ve been listening to all of the critics and I’ve been doing this to improve and I and I this is what I’m working on. I’m taking these classes and I’m

AJ (13:48.12)
Hahaha

Tara (14:12.543)
seeking advice, whatever. Obviously that is not what this fucking guy is doing because he’s so fucking like narcissistic about this and his mommy is just like, but no, it’s perfect. And you have this, you definitely have this in theater. You have all these theater mommies who are like, my child should be blah, blah, blah, blah, like, okay, but one person can have the thing. One person can have the art show or whatever. A certain, a certain specific number of people can

AJ (14:16.459)
Right.

Tara (14:40.481)
have paintings displayed in this gallery. There’s only so much room. There’s only so much, yes, like your art and your heart can be like miles and miles and miles worth of product and of like paintings or whatever. like, you still only have a room that has this much wall space and thousands and thousands of artists just probably in New York City trying to be like, I’m trying to get my painting shown.

AJ (15:09.335)
Yeah.

Tara (15:09.495)
Well, guess what? You weren’t chosen. You weren’t chosen. You weren’t chosen. Obviously, on top of that, he’s not good. like, again, only one thing like only one thing can occupy a space. Only one person can get a role. Like we want to be mad about a person being cast in a role or whatever in like theater or whatever. Like I can be disappointed all I want that I didn’t get the role. But like.

AJ (15:16.374)
Right.

AJ (15:37.909)
Right.

Tara (15:39.37)
I can’t be the role because another person is that role. That doesn’t mean that I’m bad. It means that another person was chosen. You know, and that is that is a really, really hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. And I unfortunately know a lot of actors who have been told very, very few times. And so when they don’t get something, then their initial instinct is to be mean, to talk about how someone doesn’t deserve something like it is a it is a gross environment. like art is

AJ (16:08.151)
Yeah.

Tara (16:09.695)
is a fucking bloodbath. It’s a bloodbath. And this guy, like, he just, he got to live in this life of luxury where, well, if something didn’t work out, mommy’s just gonna buy him this thing, you know, like, okay, well, 99 % of the other people who have paintings hanging in these galleries and work hanging in these galleries and getting shows do not have that luxury he has. They might have some advantages. They have more advantages than

AJ (16:11.614)
Mm hmm. It really is. Yes.

Tara (16:39.043)
you know, say some random street artist, like that person’s not going to get discovered as quickly as someone who has, you know, a certain amount of wealth or influence or connection. But like, that does not make you good. Money does not make you good. Status does not make you good. Clearly doesn’t make you nice. That’s for fucking sure. So it’s just it’s I, I always like when when we kind of play around in this in this like art area, because it also makes me one.

AJ (16:59.896)
Yeah.

Tara (17:09.379)
feel like less of an asshole. Although I’m really not, I really am not an asshole when it comes to art 99 % of the time. Sometimes I just have to be petty and whatever it said is everyone. But like, it also is just like a reflection on an area of the world that other people don’t always think about. know, people reading Nora Roberts novels, they’re not all actors or web designers or artists or writers, you know, they’re

AJ (17:11.97)
Ha ha ha ha.

AJ (17:29.346)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (17:37.134)
people literally across all spectrums of jobs and experiences. And so they’re not always thinking. they’re gonna take, they’re gonna take like the, you know, the stereotypical, you know, actors are full of themselves, whatever kind of background. And a lot of times Nora will kind of follow into this, like a little bit of that stereotype, but also she’s a writer. She’s not an actor, you know.

AJ (17:54.136)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (18:06.719)
And also though she’s not really wrong, stereotypes exist for a reason. So it it kind of goes back to this like, it’s a nice reflection for me personally, and to just be like, there really are people like that. And I am winning by not being a garbage human, like some of these people. And this guy garbage human. His mom, a Peabody’s right, she’s worse.

AJ (18:10.338)
Yeah.

AJ (18:21.603)
Bray.

Garbage Shaman.

AJ (18:29.932)
Yeah.

AJ (18:35.259)
okay. So should we start?

Tara (18:38.691)
Yeah, we can do that.

AJ (18:43.19)
You want to start? You want me to start?

Tara (18:43.309)
beautiful outline. I can start. So did you do it by day? you did by chapter. You’re amazing. You’re amazing. So we’ll look at chapter one day one. I said earlier, that’s okay. There’s it’s literally three days. It’s not full four, I guess with you know, but who? Yeah, it’s chapter one. The book opens in the killer’s point of view.

AJ (18:51.534)
I did my chapter.

AJ (18:57.844)
I didn’t do the rest of them by day, but you know.

Right.

Tara (19:13.517)
Death was his art. Far too long he’d waited for recognition of his gift. Even, yes, the adulation his extraordinary talent deserved. He wanted his due and had worked and suffered to share his vision, his genius with the world, only to see lesser talents rewarded while he faced rejection. Rejection, criticism, and worse. Tepid, patronizing, infuriating advice.

AJ (19:39.79)
That you know what, I’m kind of with him on that. I don’t know if this is your experience, but for me with art especially, you, so many people want to tell you, so many people that like, you’re like, who are you to, you know, you should be doing it this way. You should be doing this that way. And maybe like, don’t give me a vibe.

Tara (20:03.843)
Well, I do. agree with that. it’s… And again, now when you are again presenting your product to the world, you are absolutely opening yourself up for criticism. But criticism and direction are different things. If you are like, thank you for, you know, maybe you don’t want to thank people for criticism, but if you’re like, I’m going to take in this criticism and…

AJ (20:19.447)
Yes, absolutely.

Tara (20:33.377)
work with that how I would like to, that’s different. But I feel like once you start getting advice, unwarranted advice, it’s like an attack on what you’re trying to do. If you are like, would like advice, that’s different. mean, again, as an actor, if another actor tries to give me notes, I’m like, fuck off, no. I accepted this role with a director who I’m gonna listen to their advice.

AJ (20:54.36)
Right.

Tara (21:01.491)
And I will also say that there are times where, like I had this show that I’m doing right now, the youngest person in the cast who’s very lovely and we adore him. There’s a scene where he like goes off stage and exits the same door I have to enter immediately. And he wasn’t moving out of my way. And it was just him just not thinking. It wasn’t him being like, I don’t fucking care.

AJ (21:27.352)
Right.

Tara (21:27.553)
And I was like, hey, can you maybe like go to the left when you leave the, so I’m not pushing you out of the way. And he was like, yeah, thank you for the note. And I was like, it wasn’t, it wasn’t a note. I want to work on this with you together. But it was like one of those things where I’m like, I felt gross because another actor saw that as a note. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I’m literally just trying to like, if you had been like, no, I don’t want to do it that way. I was like, okay. Like I’m not the director, but that’s essentially what it is. It’s like, I’m not inviting in this criticism.

AJ (21:46.05)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (21:57.634)
like, or this this advice, like, I understand if I’m presenting you a painting and you were like, No, we don’t want that. And you have critiques about it, like, okay, but I don’t I didn’t ask for your advice. I just I just asked you to display it. So I get that I totally get that obviously. He’s delusional and he’s not very good.

AJ (22:15.245)
Right.

AJ (22:24.823)
Right, yeah.

Tara (22:25.997)
But that doesn’t mean that like he asked for someone to go, well, this is how I’d fix my work, because that’s my work. Like, and I look at my work as a certain level of skill or a certain level of, you know, beauty or whatever. And so does he, even if it’s terrible to everyone else. Okay. But if you like it, do you like it? That’s… And if you’re proud of it, okay, again.

AJ (22:33.002)
Yeah. Yeah.

AJ (22:49.44)
Right, yeah.

Tara (22:56.215)
That’s where it stops, does not give you permission to kill people. But, so, I’m glad you said that though, because like, this isn’t like, you know, college where you’re like, okay professor, I finished my painting, you know, and they’re like, actually it’s shit, like, you didn’t ask for that.

AJ (22:59.767)
Right, exactly.

AJ (23:11.501)
Yeah.

AJ (23:14.974)
Hahaha

Yeah.

Tara (23:20.131)
So anyway, so the killer preps his canvas then goes out to pick up the woman he had already chosen to be his model. She’s an LC. He offers to pay her up to $4,000 to model for him. She agrees. She’s impressed with this fancy car and large studio space. He gives her an outfit to put on and pour some wine. He takes some photos and starts to paint. He offers her another glass of wine and this time he drugs the wine. When she passes out, he strangles her.

When she’s dead, he reposes her with wire and glue. And I will say that part of like, I just felt like the introduction was so much fun with him. I was like, OK, OK. Again, that’s what she wanted, and that’s fine. But I was like, yeah, I really I don’t need to spend any more time with him. Anyway, the next morning, Eve wakes up thinking about all the paperwork she has to do. She takes a shower and chooses her own clothes.

AJ (24:01.58)
Yeah, you were not about to.

Tara (24:19.509)
on her own initiative. I love what Eve is. I’m so proud of her. I also love when she’s like, fuck paperwork. And I’m just like, it’s so nice to see Eve having to do this shit. Like you feel better about it. And then Roarke reminds her that the Great House Project is finished and that they are supposed to go over and have a housewarming dinner with everyone that evening. As they are just getting started, or they’re just starting breakfast, Eve gets a call from Dispatch because we know that was happening.

AJ (24:20.824)
Get for you Eve. I know right?

AJ (24:28.1)
Yeah.

AJ (24:51.406)
Okay, so chapter two, Eve rolls up at the scene of the crime and has a conversation with the officer on scene. And this is from the book. The wit resides here. Seventeen snuck out last night and was sneaking back in when she saw the body. As Eve ducked under the tape, Cyril gestured. That Cyril, I think, was the officer on scene. The wit, Fiona Whittier,

Tara (25:14.306)
Yes.

AJ (25:17.262)
Has the basement apartment the bodies at the bottom of the stairs in front of the secured door So I see I also see a door cam Sir, the witness admitted to deactivating that camera at about midnight Intending to reactivate it when she got back inside And we had somebody I think the last time complain about how come there’s never any cameras

And you’re like, well, because they can be deactivated, can’t they? So here we go. She’s answering this question.

Tara (25:43.403)
Right? Like that’s, that’s like, right? That’s like, that’s like being a criminal 101. You deactivate the cameras. Like, I’m not sure.

AJ (25:50.942)
Right. Yeah. Exactly.

Tara (25:55.416)
Like I appreciate you trying to be like, yes, but couldn’t you look at the cameras? Okay, but like how often you hear about shit happening and people being like, I don’t know because there weren’t any cameras. You want to know why? Because they were like broken or deactivated.

AJ (26:00.482)
Not always.

AJ (26:09.546)
Right. So the victim is Lisa Culver. She is dressed and posed with wire and adhesive to resemble a painting. Since Eve doesn’t know anything about art, she calls Roarke, shows him a picture of the victim, and he tells her the painting that she’s thinking of is Girl with a Pearl Earring by Vermeer.

Tara (26:31.875)
I just want to comment real quickly that in this book, I feel like we learned a fuckton about Peabody in this book, because she was like, this is very familiar. And then she continues to know a lot of these things, a lot of these paintings as well. And I was like, I was like, I’m not surprised because again, she has this like free age or art, like art, artsy family background. And then later, doesn’t she like, oh, she like gives her sketchbook to someone and they’re like,

AJ (26:34.435)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (26:40.738)
Yeah.

AJ (26:48.408)
Right.

AJ (26:54.711)
Yes.

AJ (26:59.981)
Yeah.

Tara (27:01.091)
They’re like, oh, this is a nice. she’s like, she’s like, I mean, I’m not trying to do anything. I was trying to design my garden. Yeah. And you’re like, good job Peabody. I feel like I love Peabody slowly being like forced into her creative roots. Like she’s just like, I feel like there was probably a part of her that was like, no, I have to resist that. I’m a badass cop. And then she gets her craft room and she like makes these things. And you’re like, good for you. I just thought that this was like a reminder that that Peabody

AJ (27:05.398)
Right, yeah, it was the gallery owner, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

AJ (27:15.009)
Yeah.

AJ (27:20.566)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha

AJ (27:25.228)
Right. Yeah.

Tara (27:31.146)
is also smart. Like I think that all the times we’re like, she is, she’s creative. And like, you can be that and a cop. You can wear pink and be badass. Just a reminder. But I love and then she’s like, works like, my gosh, it’s this and then like, I love that that becomes comes the trend. And then by the end of the book, he was like, throwing out painting names like she’s

AJ (27:33.248)
and creative and talented, yeah.

AJ (27:49.506)
Yeah.

AJ (27:54.082)
Right.

Tara (27:54.836)
fucking known this shit forever because she’s a sponge and she will she will never forget this stuff, but it’s so great

AJ (28:00.052)
No, she will not. Yeah. So Eve talks with the girl who found the victim, the parents own Charles Street Gallery in the village and an attached art supply store with a studio space above. Eve asks for names of any former employees, any artists that they may have turned down. Eve and Peabody leave. Eve asks Peabody for information on Next of Kin.

And this is from the book Peabody tells her she’s got a mother in Vegas, a dealer at a casino, a father based in Maine. He runs a whale watching gig. She got behind the wheel. What if the whale, the whale objects to being watched? Isn’t it going to be bigger than the boat because whale. So if he’s feeling pissy, could he could

be watch this assholes then rams the boat and people are splashing around in the water screams fill the air then glug glug all because they’re going out there on some boat playing peeping Tom on a whale. P by sat quietly for a moment. You know, up to now I’ve always wanted to go whale watching there’s another dream crushed. So thanks.

Tara (29:14.483)
Eve… she was like… Eve, how do you even think this way?

AJ (29:20.322)
But she’s not wrong because there have been incidences of whales like knocking boats over. Yeah. Yeah. and then they talk about the dinner party that evening to celebrate the completion of the great house project. And, people are saying it’s all the moving in, spending our first weekend there, knowing that’s home.

Tara (29:23.447)
right where the whales like. Absolutely not, guys.

AJ (29:43.704)
That’s really our home now. It’s not just having our things there, even seeing it finished. It’s having things people who matter gave us for our home. She let out another sigh. Anyway, we’re all stupid happy. Eve pulls into a street slot on 10th and then sat a moment. It took me a year, maybe more, before I started to think about Rorke’s house as mine, as ours, as home. For me, it took longer because…

I, for me, as home for me, it took longer before I really felt it. So I know what it means. I know how much it matters to have home. I just thought that was, yeah. I also want to, yeah, go ahead, sorry.

Tara (30:27.171)
loved that. Ugh. I love that. no, I was just gonna say like, I loved that also, this is part of softer Eve slowly giving us herself, but like her, you know, she continues to give Peabody this time to do these things, but also continues to be like, maybe we could talk about murder, which is great. But every now and again, she’ll say something like this and she will like kind of give back to the conversation something very personal.

AJ (30:40.301)
Yeah.

AJ (30:50.05)
Yeah.

AJ (30:56.77)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (30:56.907)
And I just think that it’s, again, it’s beautiful to watch her grow this way.

AJ (31:02.445)
Yeah.

Tara (31:07.703)
This made me like, when I listened to Susan Reed it to me, I was like, was like, yay Eve.

AJ (31:12.182)
hahahaha

AJ (31:17.218)
Yeah. So what I was gonna say, this whole thing, when I was reading this, the first thing that came to mind, me as a Southern Californian, and not everybody’s gonna get this reference, if you don’t get this reference, go and look it up. But me as a Southern Californian, the first thing I thought of is that this is the world’s…

worst recreation of the pageant of the masters. And if you don’t know what the pageant of the masters is, here in Southern California, there’s a beach town, name is Laguna, Laguna Beach. Laguna is a big hub for the artistic community, the art community.

So every year they have this thing they call the Laguna Arts Festival. And it’s a lot of local creators getting together and it’s huge art festival, know, all different kinds of art, anything you could possibly imagine. And the one big thing, sorry, the one big thing that they do, and it’s huge and it’s very hard to get tickets for this thing, is their

what they call their pageant of the masters. And essentially what happens at pageant of the masters is every evening of the Laguna Arts Festival, they use actual people to recreate paintings from history.

Tara (32:56.035)
I just Googled it because I was like, okay. Wow.

AJ (32:59.759)
Yeah. So if you look at actual photos of, that come out of the Pageant of the Masters, it looks like you’re looking at a painting, but it’s people essentially posed.

AJ (33:22.464)
It’s really amazing to see.

Tara (33:25.303)
That is really amazing. Wow. Nope, had no idea that existed.

AJ (33:27.896)
But it’s…

It’s, but it’s like, it’s exactly what this guy’s done, right? Only the worst version of it. You know, I do have to wonder if maybe Nora has been to the pageant of the masters or at least knows about the pageant of the masters, because this is something, cause when I looked it up, this is something that it’s, it’s unique to Laguna. No place else does anything like this.

Tara (33:35.574)
Right.

AJ (33:56.268)
that I could find anyway online.

Tara (33:59.48)
I I literally just Googled it now and like Wikipedia came up first and just said, this is unlike anything else. So I think that it’s true. There’s nothing else like this.

AJ (34:10.83)
Right. I just, I just thought this was funny. was, I’m going to hang on a second. I’m going to share my screen with you so you can look at it. You’re already looking at pictures of the pageant of the masters. But just to kind of like show you, and I’ll see if I can post this video of this picture somewhere. Just to kind of show you, this is one of the scenes that they did.

And you can see there’s a little arrow here because a local reporter got to be in this, in this scene. And you will see that she, in this particular picture, she’s holding her microphone from the, from the, She’s holding her microphone. So probably not when they actually did it. But just for this picture, it was funny that they did that.

Tara (34:48.579)
That’s so cool!

Cause they’re all holding flowers and she’s holding a microphone.

Tara (35:04.695)
That is really funny. That’s really cool. Like, it’s a little strange, but okay.

AJ (35:07.928)
But see, but you can see how they do the makeup and do the costumes so that it looks like a painting. It’s amazing. I’ve never gone to it. I’ve never been able to go to it because it’s so hard to get tickets and they’re really expensive. But it’s one of my goals to go to the Passion of the Masters. But yes, this guy’s recreating the world’s worst version of Passion of the Masters.

Tara (35:18.499)
That’s fascinating.

Tara (35:37.347)
For real, he is. He sucks.

AJ (35:38.606)
Yeah So, okay

Tara (35:42.716)
wow. All right. Chapter three then. So even Peabody go to look at Lisa Culver’s apartment. It’s very tiny and very messy and she has cash stored in several places all over the apartment. They spoke with her across the whole neighbor, but didn’t really learn anything. When they get back to the car, they have a conversation about why they each decided to come to New York. I also love when they revisit this. They revisit this every now and again, even Peabody just kind of talking about.

AJ (36:10.986)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (36:12.451)
Because I feel like it’s nice for them to have this conversation. Peabody says, why New York for you? mean, why here especially? Because you can be anybody here. You can disappear if you want. Nobody knows you and nobody cares where you came from. It’s the whole fucking world in one place. That, that last bit for me too. The excitement, the so much of it. I wanted the badge.

also, but I wanted it here. I wanted some of that so much. It scared me a little at first. And even that was exciting. As I got in the car Peabody belted up. Did it scare you at first? No, it was the answer, Eve thought of herself sitting at the counter window eating her first slice of New York pizza. Freedom at last. It was all the answers. I thought I could shake off everything that happened before shut it away, but the city would just burn it off.

I was wrong about that, because you never shake it all off. She considered a moment. Maybe you shouldn’t.

AJ (37:18.286)
So before you go on, there’s only one more line, so go ahead.

Tara (37:24.315)
when they talk with Morris, he tells them that Lisa Culver had been drugged and then strangled, which is not great.

AJ (37:30.188)
Yeah, so, and this is for people who constantly say, when is Eve gonna be over it? When is Eve gonna be over her past? And here she’s saying, like, you can’t ever be over it, and maybe you shouldn’t ever be over it. You know, because it makes you who you are.

Tara (37:39.043)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (37:50.176)
Exactly. And I like that this is also like kind of where the conversation moved between the two of them. Because again, Eve is is learning to like say these kind of things out loud. Like she’s not here like trauma dumping or anything, but she is she’s like saying a thing out loud that just needs to be said for her sake, I think, to a person she trusts. And that’s really all it is. It’s just again, just the evolution of Eve becoming

AJ (37:55.394)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (38:13.922)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (38:20.035)
becoming like more comfortable and understanding the safety she has around the people who love her. And it’s always done very, very, very subtly and it’s so good.

AJ (38:26.252)
Yeah.

AJ (38:30.702)
Yeah.

Okay, so moving on to chapter four, and Peabody head back to Central and discuss what possible motivations there might be for this murder. I think right away they talk about maybe it’s some disgruntled artist. So that makes sense. But so in the elevator, they run into Jenkinson and Eve complains about his tie.

Tara (38:50.712)
Yes.

Tara (39:02.019)
Of course she does.

AJ (39:03.126)
Yeah, he gives Eve the rundown of everything happening in the bullpen currently. So I like that Jenkins is now in this position where he’s like, you know, this person’s here, Baxter and Trujard are doing this and Santiago and Carmichael are doing this and you know, so Eve keeps up to date.

Eve contacts Lisa’s mother and father, but neither one wants to claim her body. She calls several other family members and nobody wants to have anything to do with her either. She finally finds an aunt who is willing to claim the body. But the whole thing makes Eve very sad. And there’s this point in the book where she gets up after making all those calls and like goes to her window and she’s looking out.

And it says, the book says, there were some, she thought, no matter what they came from, who worked to make themselves better. Peabody has a list of suspects, so she and Eve go to question them. it was really, did this, you know, this part was making Eve very sad.

Tara (40:13.603)
It is, you we don’t, obviously don’t get to know Lisa while she’s alive. Like we don’t get to know her. Obviously as we move through this year, we like learn that she was not pleasant to be around, but then also like interacting with her mother. And then also her aunt’s reaction to all of that makes you go, this woman, it literally, I, you know, at least in my opinion, I feel like she very much just is surviving at this point.

AJ (40:13.614)
You know.

Tara (40:43.521)
and is trying to incorporate success with being rising up as licensed companion and understanding that she was probably not raised in a very accepting or warm household. And her mother is like, well, she’s going to do what the hell she wants to do. But the way she reacts to Eve, I know we didn’t read those lines, but it was very much like, no wonder this woman has been described as

pissy ass by everyone. Like she has she has definitely come through a lot of a lot of struggle, I’m sure, to get where she is. And it’s sad, I think also because she never like she she never got to a place where she did have friends and a comfortable place to be and that safety and that like self assurance because you met her mom in a four second call and she was a

AJ (41:14.519)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (41:23.468)
Yeah.

Tara (41:43.043)
piece of shit.

AJ (41:44.152)
Right.

Tara (41:45.782)
So yeah, and I appreciate Eve’s persistency to find that ant to handle all of that.

AJ (41:47.054)
So.

AJ (41:56.514)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. you know, mean, regardless, it did seem to her that Lisa was working to make herself better. And that’s not easy. If you’re somebody who is a family that doesn’t care for you, doesn’t want you or whatever, to go out on your own and to like make your way on your own, that’s a difficult thing to do.

Tara (42:26.403)
Yeah, it is clear she was working really hard. And obviously it’s not Eve’s job to tell these other Elsies that, you might have seen this or whatever, but she was working. That’s not what anyone wants to have a conversation about. So it’s nice to see, again, that hint of Eve recognizing that. does it ultimately have anything to do with the storyline? No.

AJ (42:45.475)
Right.

AJ (42:51.682)
Yeah.

Tara (42:56.543)
it’s part of Eve’s humanity, which is this series.

AJ (42:58.686)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I think, you know, there’s probably something, it doesn’t say in the book, but it probably something inside of Eve that thinks, like, I could very easily be this person. If I went to New York and things didn’t work out for me, I could very easily be this person who is like now dead and has no family to claim them, you know? So she’s kind of in some small way seeing a little bit of herself, you know, in this person.

Tara (43:13.847)
Yeah. I absolutely think that. Yeah.

AJ (43:36.416)
All right.

Tara (43:38.107)
So chapter five. The first aspect is Alan Orion. I’m not sure how that’s pronounced. Yeah. Who changed his name from Waldo Pecker.

AJ (43:50.434)
Yeah, Ellen or Ryan, I would think, yeah.

AJ (43:57.39)
Which they made a lot of jokes about.

Tara (44:00.279)
They’ve been a lot of jokes. Alan is, and also Alan is a dick who plays his music way too loud while he makes crappy art.

AJ (44:07.598)
That was my interpretation of Alan.

Tara (44:10.755)
I mean, it’s not wrong. So then Peabody says, this is from the book, way too busy swimming in self pity and self indulgence to plan out a murder. Plus, none of his stuff is in the same universe as the portrait. He never have used something like that. What universe is his stuff in? Eve asked as they started down the shit universe. Peabody out here like dishing out some harsh criticism.

AJ (44:33.934)
I mean…

AJ (44:39.532)
Right? Yeah.

Tara (44:41.571)
I mean, it’s it’s interesting because she kind of like He you know the murderer actually also very much lives in a world of like self-indulgence and whatever But Very differently this guy’s just over here making a shitty art and playing music loud and having a terrible name So

AJ (44:57.25)
Yes. Yeah. But they’re both handling it very differently.

AJ (45:09.11)
Right.

Tara (45:11.459)
So next is Simon Standish. He’s a substitute art teacher at the high school level and works at Cafe Urbane. They go into the cafe. Eve tells Peabody to order her salad and get Eve a grilled cheese. Then Eve realizes she’s again out of cash, so we’re going to have the cash on hand discussion with Roarke again. Yes, we are. Simon tells Eve he has a break in about 20 minutes, so she and Peabody sit down to eat their lunch. When he finally comes back,

AJ (45:32.321)
Yeah.

Tara (45:40.142)
goes on his break, Simon comes over to them. They question him. He’s got an alibi, but he’s also just not buzzing for Eve. They leave the cafe and head over to the next suspect, Kyle Drew. They eliminate Kyle pretty quickly also, mostly because he had hurt his hand and had it in a cast, but also again, because he didn’t ring any bells. Interesting like contrast between all these guys too.

AJ (46:06.016)
Right, you know, and they had like the, like Simon’s on their list because he like punched out a guy and over some art thing. And Kyle is on their list because did was he, he had, I can’t remember. Did he have a restraining order on him or something? I can’t remember.

Tara (46:14.615)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (46:32.29)
Something like that, I know.

AJ (46:35.19)
I didn’t, sorry, I didn’t go, but like this is the, Kyle is the one that, yeah. And Kyle’s the one where they go to his apartment and Peabody’s right away like really struck by his work that she can see that he’s really good and you know. But again, he just didn’t ring any bells for them.

Tara (46:38.797)
He didn’t do it.

AJ (46:58.914)
All right. So chapter six, see, I’m going real quick through this whole thing because, chapter six, next is suspect Martin Martin. He wasn’t at his apartment and they later find out that he’s in Philadelphia at an art exhibit. back at central, Eve goes to talk to Mira, who we hear yet again has excellent legs.

Tara (47:01.795)
Jesus. I know, it’s okay. You got it.

Tara (47:09.133)
this guy.

Tara (47:27.469)
can’t.

AJ (47:29.23)
She goes back to the bullpen and tells Peabody to go ahead and go home. Later, Roarke comes to pick her up and take her to the dinner at the Great House Project. On the way, Roarke tells Eve that her club off duty is coming along and that he found out today that Caro’s daughter Reba is expecting a child.

Tara (47:51.172)
Okay, so are we assuming that Reva does not end up with what’s his fucking face? Or do they? I know, but like, just, for me, I’m like, I want that to be it. First of all, I want that to be it. But I feel like also that Mark would be like, you know, you remember, I can’t remember his name now. The man who was literally at our home, like, I don’t know, I just feel like Mark would have used his name. So I’m hoping that this was just,

AJ (47:56.716)
No, I think that’s what is implied.

Tara (48:20.865)
Nora not really invested in that and we can continue believing that they end up together.

AJ (48:27.298)
Yeah. She’s, yeah, he just says she’s been seeing somebody for nearly a year now. They decided they want to see it. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe he just, she just didn’t remember the guy’s name, so she just.

Tara (48:28.8)
That’s a-

Tara (48:34.104)
Yeah.

Well, and they were, remember, at end of that book.

Tara (48:42.115)
I’m going to continue living in that mindset. I was just like, I was really… Because Roark had that beautiful line to him or whatever at the end of the book about pursuing Reva. And then we don’t hear about Reva anymore because she’s just not part of the main story. So this was nice, but then I was also like, better be that guy. And I was like, but what if it’s not? Because Roark didn’t say his name. But that’s, yeah, I just wanted to say that out loud. It’s that guy.

AJ (48:47.157)
Obviously.

AJ (48:54.796)
Yeah.

AJ (49:05.888)
Right, yeah. That’s our headcanon. It is that guy, and they’re just together.

Tara (49:11.179)
Until Nora proves this wrong, it’s that guy.

AJ (49:13.944)
Right.

Tara (49:19.716)
are you gonna finish that? That’s okay. That’s okay. That’s okay.

AJ (49:23.57)
I forgot it was me. was okay. Even Roarke get to the Great House project and are greeted by Bella. Then they’re told by Mavis that Bella has created a rule that everyone had to wear ribbons in their hair.

Tara (49:38.509)
fucking cute.

AJ (49:42.041)
So everyone’s wearing a ribbon. I don’t know how she could do that because she can’t really talk very well yet. Still. mean, Nora needs to start giving that child more of a vocabulary. I’m really sorry, but she’s but two now.

Tara (49:42.051)
That’s what little kids do though.

Tara (49:49.057)
Well, you she’s very special.

AJ (50:03.394)
Batu-ish?

Tara (50:05.293)
think she’ll be too… it’s like fall, right? So I think she’s like two and half or one and a half because wasn’t she born around like Valentine’s Day or something? Yeah, I don’t know.

AJ (50:15.392)
I guess so. So I guess she doesn’t have to give her more of a vocabulary. She’s still too young, but like, yeah, at this point, it’s like, I agree with the people that are like, come on, move it along. And I probably should have said more about the Great House project, but it’s like, you know. We’ve seen, you know.

I mean, the mood is very celebratory. Everybody’s happy and weepy over the house and Rorke makes a very short toast, which is, to all who dwell here, may today’s joy be a drop in a cup that runs full.

Tara (50:52.269)
Honestly, I again I said this at beginning of episode. I really enjoyed the time like Seeing everything and going through it and also like so did Eve which is great I’m not really sure what else was supposed to say about that So I think that you are just fine for saying exactly that’s in the outline That’s me. I don’t know like if there’s gonna be a wiki page later at some point that describes these rooms in detail have at it

AJ (51:03.084)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (51:09.706)
Yeah

Tara (51:20.407)
But I don’t think that was necessary in this outline. think it’s great.

AJ (51:23.732)
If there might already be a wiki page describing the rooms in detail. Who knows? So, there you go.

Tara (51:27.479)
Yeah. So I also feel like we’re kind of divided as a fandom about how much we care about this house project. And then some people were very invested and some people are like, my fucking God move in already. You know, so it’s.

AJ (51:34.798)
Yes, very much so.

Yeah, if I never hear any more about this great house project, it’ll be too soon.

Tara (51:45.06)
Right. So again, I was cool with it. So chapter seven, we toured the McNabb Peabody portion of the house again. Everybody’s over the moon with everything and weeping and full of happy, happy, So then Eve and Rorick leave the party and of course Eve wants to stop by the corner and release a call where it worked. All the female LCs are eye fucking Rorick.

AJ (51:48.076)
Yeah.

AJ (52:02.031)
What? mean… Right?

Tara (52:13.539)
course, and Eve is picking up a little information, but mostly that none of the Elsies really liked Lisa Culver. They go back home to do more research. Eve is asking Roarke a lot of questions about other Vermeer paintings. This is a great scene. Did you ever steal one of his? Well, you could say I acquired one. You’ve got one here? Reaching up, she pulled at her hair one of these. I don’t know. I might have, but at that time money trumped art collecting for me.

amused he smoothed down her hair. It was stolen before I was born from a museum in Boston. I happened to as I said, reacquire it from a private collection in Dublin. You stole it from the thief. I reacquired it from the descendant of the thief. I love how he just keeps using reacquired. He’s like, no, no. It’s so funny. As this was roughly a half a century after the original theft. Nudging her over a bit, he called up the painting in question. The concert.

AJ (52:59.456)
Right, exactly.

Tara (53:10.807)
Back in 1990, a group of thieves disguised as coppers bagged 13 paintings from the museum in Boston, where the patron had acquired this particular work for only $5,000 at a Paris auction. So it wasn’t worth much. Darling Eve, by the time I reacquired it, the concert was valued at nearly $400 million and considered one the most valuable unrecovered works. For that…

It’s fascinating, the light, the shadows, details, the details in the two paintings on the wall in that scene, the landscape painted on the lid of the harpsichord. He paused and she imagined him imagining holding that painting in his hands, studying that light, those shadows, those details. In any case, he continued, I arranged for its discovery and return for a tidy finders fee. What’s tidy in your world? As I recall, we negotiated and finalized it 35 million.

That’s pretty fucking tidy, Ace. Benning Daddy kissed the top of her head. It helped build this house, so in a serendipitous way, that’s why we’re both here. So we’re both here because a bunch of guys pretending to be cops stole a bunch of paintings in Boston last century. And see how well that worked out.

AJ (54:22.392)
So, Nora’s putting Rorik into this historic art theft. In Nora’s world, he’s the one that recovers one of these paintings. So, I put a side note here, and the side note is just telling you all about this art theft if you’re interested in.

Tara (54:31.363)
awesome.

Tara (54:36.393)
I love that.

Tara (54:45.857)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll read that. So the side note that AJ did this lovely research on, the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum theft was a 1990 art heist in Boston, where two men disguised as police officers stole 13 works of art, including pieces by Rembrandt and Vermeer from the museum. The theft remains the largest unsolved art heist in history.

with the FBI and museum offering a $10 million reward for information leading to the recovery of the artworks. The empty frames of the stolen pieces are still displayed in the museum as a reminder of the loss. Some key details of the theft was on March 18, 1990, at the Isabelle Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston, Massachusetts. The perpetrators were two men dressed as police officers. And the method was the men gained entry by posing as officers responding to a disturbance call.

then tied up the two night guards and duct taped them in the basement. Yikes. The stolen art were 13 works of art, including Vermeer’s The Concert and Rembrandt’s The Storm on the Sea of Galilee. Duration, the thieves spent 81 minutes inside the museum. The investigation is unsolved. The case remains unsolved with no arrests made and no artworks recovered. The museum offers a $10 million reward for information leading to the recovery of the stolen art.

The FBI has been involved in the investigation and has identified potential suspects and criminal organizations believed to be involved. The theft has been the subject of numerous investigations, documentaries, and books, including the Netflix series, This Is a Robbery, the world’s biggest art heist. The current status is that the empty frames where the stolen masterpieces once hung are still displayed in the museum, and the museum continues to work with the FBI and other

agencies to find the stolen art. That is fascinating. That is…

AJ (56:42.838)
Well, little, little did they know that just this year Roarke is born and he’s going to recover those. So one, just one. Yeah, it is fascinating. And I watched that Netflix documentary and the guys, they stole several, stole 13 paintings. And I mean, essentially what they did was instead of trying to take the paintings out or take

Tara (56:49.675)
right? That just one.

AJ (57:11.34)
the paintings with the frames and all of that. They essentially went around, they knew the ones that they, they think they knew the ones they wanted to take because they were pretty quick about it. And they just got out blades essentially and just, you know, cut, cut the paintings out of the frames, just rolled them up.

So that’s why the frames are still there. They just never took the frames out. But yeah, these guys just went around and just zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, it up, went to the next one. Yeah. So. Interesting.

Tara (57:51.414)
is interesting. I had never heard of this because I just have never followed it. But I love that Nora did this that she like, both work into it. I love it. Good job, Nora.

AJ (57:59.693)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

AJ (58:08.43)
Okay, so chapter eight, even Roarke have sex during which she tells him that she needs a cash loan. I mean.

Tara (58:17.921)
And this conversation goes better than it ever has. It really does.

AJ (58:21.194)
It really does, you know. So in another part of the city, sorry, in another part of the city, Jonathan Harper Ebersole went on the hunt. He’s looking for a man this time and picks up Bobby Wren. The next morning Eve wakes up to find Roarke gone. She takes a shower and then she gets dressed. Finds that Roarke has an outfit all ready for her.

And then it says from the book, when she hissed out of breath, part of her wanted to reject the choices just to to be pissy ass she admitted Eve. So he’s getting breakfast when she came back into the bedroom before she could eat. She had another call from dispatch. The victim was found at Midtown Gallery.

Tara (58:59.447)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

AJ (59:16.256)
She shoveled in some food, took the wad of cash Rorke offered her and left to go to the scene. And then as she’s leaving it says in the book, Rorke rubbed at the gray button in his pocket, then spotted the cat. And stop where you are, mate. Don’t think you’ll help yourself to her breakfast. The cat looked at Rorke. Rorke looked at the cat. Then he shrugged.

Well, then I don’t suppose there’s any harm in a bite or two of an omelet. As he caped and crumbled a slice of bacon over a portion of eggs, Eve drove through the gates. So, if you can’t beat them, join them. I mean, really. And talk about never being denied things, right?

Tara (59:55.939)
That cat is so fucking spoiled.

Right?

Tara (01:00:04.055)
Right? But you know what? Galahad hasn’t gone on a murder spree, so… Right? He keeps getting denied bacon. It might happen.

AJ (01:00:08.94)
And not yet.

AJ (01:00:14.17)
Right, exactly. At the scene, Eve is immediately accosted by large puppy. The owner, Glen Franks, was walking the puppy when he saw the scene and called 911.

Roarke had made Eve a cheat sheet with images of famous portraits, but she didn’t find one there that matched what she was seeing on the scene. So she calls Roarke and he tells her that the scene looks like the painting, The Blue Boy by Thomas Gainsborough. Eve identifies the victim as Robert Wren, then heard Peabody behind her say, shit, it’s the blue boy. So, there you go.

Tara (01:00:59.147)
And yeah, you’ve got to meet a giant puppy, which sounds amazing, by the way.

AJ (01:01:04.16)
Right. Right. But Eve’s just annoyed, but… Yeah.

Tara (01:01:05.709)
We love a dog. Yeah, we’re dog people. So chapter nine, they go to talk to the manager of the gallery. I own a beach. She is at home with a husky Ukrainian man named Mikhail. Hunky. Nope. You said hunky. I can’t read. My reading skills don’t work on Saturdays at 1 54 p.m.

AJ (01:01:24.702)
hunky. Did I say husky? Did I say husky?

AJ (01:01:33.076)
yeah, so, right.

Tara (01:01:35.0)
No, it says hunky. And he is described very beautifully. So Iona and Mikhail are alibi as they were together all night. However, they also have security feeds that show them coming into the house the night before and not going out again. Eve has Peabody take a look at the feeds with Iona while she talks alone with Mikhail. And Mikhail tells her from the book, whether you’re a hobbyist or professional, whether you create to live or live to create

What you create has to be yours, you see, or you’re nothing. You have to own it or you create nothing. How do you feel when someone looks at your work and thinks it’s crap? Pain, anger, sorrow. Then I use all of that in the next work. You can’t create for either of the two people who see two different things, but only for yourself. So you own your art. What if I said the killer’s art is the kill? He blinked at her. I see.

I’d say I hope you find him quickly because wouldn’t he need to create another work? It’s a great conversation that they have. And he he’s great. I love a lot of what he says. Eve also asks Alona to give her a list of former employees and artists that the gallery might have rejected as they leave, Peabody says, also from the book, Holy shit fire, that guy was ripped, cut, built and Adonis.

AJ (01:02:40.524)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (01:03:01.409)
And you know what else he was insightful. Let’s go see how dead blue boy lift. Eve. As Robert at Robert Wren’s apartment, they master it and find another guy who was sleeping on a pool out and had just woken up. He was naked and very confused. Jed didn’t give them much info. Then they talked to Alex Miner, the manager of the adult theater where Robert Wren sometimes brought clients.

AJ (01:03:07.918)
You

AJ (01:03:26.798)
He didn’t give him much either. so to go back to Mikhail, or Mikhail. So this is I believe, I could be wrong. This may be a call back to Nora’s earlier Stanislavsky series. Because there’s the first book is Mikhail’s book and Mikhail is actually a

Tara (01:03:28.493)
Yeah.

Tara (01:03:45.719)
Okay.

AJ (01:03:54.114)
He’s a sculptor, he’s not a painter. But this guy is like Ukrainian and so was Mikhail from the Stanislavski series. And he was also hunky and built like an Adonis. So I think this is like a callback to Mikhail Stanislavski.

Tara (01:04:10.957)
built like an Adonis.

Tara (01:04:19.305)
Honestly, go for it, Nora. Just keep calling back your own stuff. I love it. Good for her.

AJ (01:04:24.96)
Yeah. And I love the thing I loved about Jed was he was like totally naked. Well, first of all, they don’t even knock police like they don’t know. They just assume nobody’s there.

Tara (01:04:36.835)
Because well, I mean, they should be assuming nobody’s there, but poor Jed, he doesn’t know, right?

AJ (01:04:42.914)
But what if he has a roommate? They don’t know if he has a roommate, doesn’t have a roommate.

Tara (01:04:49.205)
I thought I just assumed that they did like a run in just thought he would. Yeah. I don’t think I don’t think that they showed on the page that they did any kind of run. But my.

AJ (01:04:53.14)
I don’t remember that, yeah, they just walk in on this guy.

Right.

So, and this guy wasn’t a roommate, but he would crash at Robert Wren’s apartment and he had just woken up and he was naked and he kept covering his junk and basically saying, the fuck? Which is, I mean, honest, know, yeah.

Tara (01:05:05.761)
Yeah!

Tara (01:05:16.043)
It was right. Honest. This guy’s like, I’m just trying to live. I’m just trying to live, you know. It’s it’s fun. It’s a fun scene.

AJ (01:05:23.822)
Right, the one good thing that Eve did for him was that she, know, because the apartment’s trash and things aren’t working and all this kind of stuff. And she said, because he’s saying like, well, what do do now? Because I crash here a lot of the times and if Robert’s dead, then I don’t know what to do. Right, and.

Tara (01:05:46.925)
wanna write it to someone else, yeah.

AJ (01:05:51.806)
He’s saying, don’t know if they’d rent it to me. And, and, so he’s worried about that. And Eve says, why don’t you go to the. You know, owner or the manager of the apartment building and tell him that Lieutenant Dallas told you that this place is a dump and she saw a lot of code violations and she is going to report all of those, you know, code violations unless, you know.

I can’t remember exactly what she tells him, but…

Tara (01:06:24.907)
It’s yeah, but it’s real, it’s real great. She’s just like no Like you you can I’m gonna help you out a little bit It’s nice

AJ (01:06:35.79)
Sorry, my thing was going off. Yeah, was, yeah, and Peabody, because he says, you know, I can’t, he’ll be angry at me if I do that. And Peabody said, if you go to him and say, and do it like you’re doing him a favor, maybe he’ll be grateful to you and let you stay in the apartment. So the guy’s like, oh yeah. So yeah, it was a nice thing for them to do.

Tara (01:07:04.643)
See Eve, she’s, I know no one believes it, but she’s a nice person.

AJ (01:07:08.974)
she is a nice person.

AJ (01:07:16.632)
So.

Is that next on mine?

Tara (01:07:20.737)
Yes.

AJ (01:07:22.254)
Alright, Chapter 10. Next day notified, Robert Wren’s mother. She’s very upset, asks to see him, and talks about making arrangements for him with his sister. opposite of Lisa Culver’s family.

Tara (01:07:39.618)
Right.

AJ (01:07:41.094)
after that, visit the crime lab. Harville tells them the costume was made well with expensive materials. So they know the killer has money and that the costumes were probably made at specialty shops. asks Peabody to consult with Leonardo in case he can be any help in this area. then Eve goes to see Morris and Morris just basically tells Eve, you know, what the guy had in his stomach and all of that.

We didn’t learn too much that we didn’t already know. Back at Central, I just really love this part of the book, this scene here. Eve’s in the elevator. It says, two uniforms escorted a woman in who looked more impatient than worried. And she looks at Eve and says, you’re a woman. Eve gave her a wary look. I am.

Tara (01:08:21.507)
That’s great.

AJ (01:08:40.332)
wearing a ring so you’re married. Yeah. Well, let me ask you, you’re married to a guy for 17 years, shove a couple of kids out of your body along the way, work your ass off for a couple other men while you’re dealing with kids, now teenage kids, who bring their own kind of hell. And on one more morning when you’re shoving teenagers out of the damn door for school, trying to get yourself cleaned up to go to work, the man you married says, damn it, Kath, where’s my breakfast?

What do you do? It’s difficult to say, as I’ve never been in that situation. I’ll tell you what you do. You do just like I did. I said, here’s your breakfast, Charlie, and gave him a good smack with a fry pan. Then what happens? Kath shifted with the uniforms to let more cops on and maneuvered even to the corner. I’ll tell you what happens. He’s yelling. I tried to kill him.

If I wanted to kill him, I’d have kept smacking that pan over his stupid head instead of giving him one little tap. And he’s carrying on like I stabbed him, not even bleeding, but he’s carrying on like I stabbed him in the guts. Got the lump he deserved is all. And one of the noisy neighbors calls the cops on me. Now I’m arrested and late for work. Where’s the justice?

Tara (01:09:39.139)
You

Tara (01:09:51.232)
Cough

AJ (01:09:59.566)
Ma’am, one of the uniforms, rolled his eyes at Eve. We’ve got to get off here. Breakfast my ass, she said, escorting her off. You do the same, she shouted back at Eve. Eve thought, no, why would she use a fry pan when she had a perfectly good fist?

Tara (01:10:19.011)
It’s so fucking funny. I tackled out loud at this fucking scene. Oh my god.

AJ (01:10:24.928)
It was, it was the best. It was one of the best interactions. and, and you know, I mean, here’s first of all, here’s funny story. Not funny. So this is like, look, when my mom, we didn’t hear a lot about my mom’s dad growing up. when we got a little bit older, she would open up more and tell us about her actual dad.

But he was really abusive. was drunk and he was very abusive. And one of the stories my mom told, like later on in my life was, yeah, she’d walked in on her dad kind of beating up her mom. And she said, I ran outside and I picked up a shovel and went inside and like clang hit him on the head.

to stop him and she said, I’ll never forget the noise it made when I hit him on the head like clang. It’s like wow.

Tara (01:11:16.215)
Love it.

Tara (01:11:25.059)
Good for her. That’s amazing.

AJ (01:11:25.23)
You know, but, you know, here’s the thing. I totally get this woman. And it’s funny because just yesterday I was watching, I was on TikTok and a video popped up and it’s this guy and you could tell it’s a guy and then you could tell it’s his wife that’s filming him. And I don’t know, I didn’t watch any of their other videos. So I don’t know what happened before this.

But she did kind of say, okay, so you wanted to say something to me about the bet that we had? And he’s like, yeah, I wanted to apologize to you. And she was like, okay. And she’s like, go tell everybody what the bet was. And he said, well, you know, we were having, I guess they had been having a fight. And he had basically said she was lazy.

And she was like, I, I bet you couldn’t do what I do. And I don’t think she has, she said she has a part-time job, but not a full-time job, but also they have kids, they have young kids, very young kids. And, she like, I think she only, she only challenged him to make dinners for like a week to make all the food, not just dinner, but all of the food.

No, she just challenged him to make dinners. I think that’s what it was. And so that was the bet. And she’s like, and you wanted to apologize? like, yeah, because I honestly, I did not understand how much work goes into that. And he made this big, whole big thing, like the, not just cooking, because the cooking part is kind of fun, but like.

the thinking about what you’re gonna cook and then having to get all the ingredients together, go out shopping and find all the ingredients and planning all that and not just dinner but breakfast. And he’s like, I just realized like.

AJ (01:13:39.274)
you cook breakfast in the morning every morning and and you have to think about that too but then you cook the breakfast and then as soon as it’s done you’re doing dishes and then as soon as dishes is done you now you have to think about lunch so you get everybody lunch and then you have to do dishes for that and and then as soon as those are over now you have to start thinking about dinner and she was telling him so you can see how and especially

that’s like almost a full-time job. And so that’s why other things get ignored because he said, yeah, because you have to feed people. You don’t have to clean the bathroom, but you have to feed people. So yeah, that’s why the bathroom gets put on hold. And she said, and…

Tara (01:14:26.477)
Right.

AJ (01:14:33.55)
I don’t have a full-time job, but I also have a part-time job. So I have to think about that as well. That’s something I still have to do as well as that the, on the days that I work, still coming home and making dinners every night. And he was like, I just, I don’t know how you do it really. Just for one week of doing, of, making dinners, this guy was like, I don’t know how you do it. I’m so sorry. I underestimated you. I’m so sorry. I called you lazy.

Tara (01:14:54.125)
When I…

AJ (01:15:03.532)
Like I’m just so sorry. like he said, if you want me to start helping you with dinners a couple of times a week, you know, maybe on the weekends when I’m not working, I can make dinners. I will do that for you because like, I just didn’t, I just didn’t understand. Yeah. But it’s like, because, you know, in a lot of cases, men, it’s usually men because usually the wife takes on that role.

Tara (01:15:21.089)
Isn’t that fascinating?

AJ (01:15:30.946)
don’t understand how much work it is. So for somebody to come in after years and years and years of you doing that work, come in and say, God damn it, where’s my breakfast? You know, like, yeah, you are gonna like go off on them. Unfortunately, you know, I don’t know what else to say. So.

Tara (01:15:51.78)
And sometimes you’re gonna hit him with a frying pan. I mean, right? Come on. You’re fine.

AJ (01:15:54.9)
Exactly. And she only hit him once. So like, what is he complaining about? I mean, apparently my mom’s dad, once he recovered, actually laughed about her doing that. He thought it was funny.

Tara (01:16:09.475)
mean, you know, he clearly earned it, so.

AJ (01:16:10.594)
but he earned it. And he did know, and then she said that, like he did understand that when he got drunk, he would do that. And he was, she said he was always very sorry, but still you can’t live with a person like that, which is why my grandma left him. anyway, so back at her office, Eve calls a few high-end custom.

cons bleh that’s hard to say in her office eve calls a few high-end custom costume manufacturers but she didn’t learn much and plus there’s a lot of secrecy around apparently there was a lot of secrecy around that you know you

Tara (01:16:55.273)
I yeah, I was like, okay, why but then I guess again, this is just like completely outside of our realm is just people with lots of money can have whatever the fuck they want.

AJ (01:17:03.563)
Right.

AJ (01:17:08.61)
go to these fancy costume contests where they have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for a costume custom made for them. It’s crazy. So Peabody comes in to give Eve what she learned from Leonardo.

which is that creating historically accurate costumes like the ones the killer used would take a significant amount of time and money, at least six to eight weeks and approximately $175,000 for the girl’s costume and twice that for the boys, right? The killer wouldn’t have needed the exact measurements of his victims, but would have focused on facial likeness or general body type.

Tara (01:17:46.509)
It’s insane. Insane.

AJ (01:17:58.08)
Leonardo also explains that sourcing the rare fabrics and possibly hiring an art expert would have been required, meaning the killer likely placed the orders months in advance through specialized costume makers or fabric suppliers. You’re right. And they’re all international because she’s talking to people in France and other places.

Tara (01:18:15.125)
insane.

Tara (01:18:22.147)
I got the people who were like assholes to her. like, you know, and then I, I know that it’s like very exaggerated or whatever, but every time Nora has Eve encounter people who were like snooty to her, my back is up. I’m like, don’t talk to Eve like that. And then I’m like, I want you to be guilty. Like it just.

AJ (01:18:24.842)
Right.

AJ (01:18:39.286)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So Eve contacts Rio because she thinks international warrants might be needed to get some of this information since everybody’s so closed mouth about it and she needs warrants to get anybody to talk. So, all right.

Tara (01:18:46.434)
What?

Tara (01:19:04.067)
Yeah, yeah. So I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who’s let know, like don’t you dare talk to Eve like that.

AJ (01:19:11.832)
Right?

Tara (01:19:14.295)
Chapter 11.

AJ (01:19:16.344)
Did I miss chapter 12? Did I? I didn’t put chapter 12 in here because I went from.

Tara (01:19:19.979)
I don’t know. I’m on chapter 11, so I didn’t go that far down. I guess you did skip chapters. Well, we’ll see what we can remember. Anyway. Or maybe miss my number. You know what? No one’s perfect.

AJ (01:19:23.798)
Well, I, yeah, hopefully nothing. OK.

I might have rolled them in, you know.

Tara (01:19:40.471)
Why am I… Hold on. That’s annoying.

Tara (01:19:52.099)
Sorry about that. Chapter 11.

Eve talks to Rio about her helping to get around the client confidentiality claim she keeps running into.

AJ (01:20:03.64)
Sorry, think 11 and 12 are all rolled into one here. So we’re not gonna miss anything.

Tara (01:20:09.088)
okay.

Tara (01:20:13.537)
I knew you wouldn’t miss anything. So she finds an establishment that is at least willing to do research and tell her if they’ve made costumes that match Girl with the Pearl Earring and Blue Boy. She gets a call back from an assistant, Riley, who tells Eve that they have orders for two costumes as well as one. Orders for those two costumes as well as one she calls Pinky. Eve and Peabody go to question some more gallery managers.

one, Harley Prince tells them that she did have one artist who dressed well, painted portraits and was very persistent in wanting her to accept his work. From the book. I didn’t like him, she added. I don’t suppose that applies. It does. Why didn’t you like him? He was rude, arrogant right from the start, as if doing us a favor by offering his art. You will have this but I honestly can’t tell you exactly why. But if he’d said

I should have my eyes gouged out. I would have reported it. I found him disturbing. Can you describe him? my goodness, it’s been some time. I’d say he was in his late 20s, maybe early 30s, very slim, very pale complexion. I remember his eyes were a very, very dark blue. I remember his eyes because I found them, I’ll say disturbing again. It’s what I remember most. I can’t quite see his face if you understand me, but remember his eyes.

So Eve asked Harley if she would work with a police artist and Peabody contacts Yancy. Then Peabody asks if they can get soy dogs and Eve offers to pay but mentions that she needs to find a cash machine so she can pull out money to pay Roarke back. Peabody is surprised but when she and Eve discuss the issue, Peabody understands. Eve says, it’s respect and avoids conflict.

It’s love too. You can respect somebody without loving them, but if you don’t respect somebody you love, it’s never going to hold up. I’m going to use that one if he gets busy about the payback. So then after talking with another gallery manager, they think that maybe because the killer is so picky about the costumes, he might also be picky about the paints and the brushes and have them custom made as well. So that’s another thread they can pull.

AJ (01:22:19.758)
You

Tara (01:22:38.967)
Back at the bullpen, Peabody continues contacting people in costumes and art. tackles paperwork. When the paperwork is done, Eve decides she wants candy. This is so great. She got up, walked to her office door, listened. Yeah, still some activity in her bullpen. She eased the door shut, just in case. After turning her desk chair over, she sat on the floor.

AJ (01:22:48.27)
This is another one of the best scenes

Tara (01:23:05.335)
With her pen knife, she carefully unscrewed the wheeled base, lifted it. Instead of the jumbo chocolate bar, she stared down at a jumbo smiley face sticker, a big yellow smiley face with googly eyes. Son of a bitch. Because it looked puffy, she pressed a finger on it. As the googly eyes shook, went ha ha ha ha ha. That’s not funny. Maybe a little funny, she admitted. But now the insidious candy thief mocked her.

AJ (01:23:25.795)
you

Tara (01:23:34.124)
Stealing her candy stash wasn’t enough for them now. She sat a moment plotting revenge. Coding the next bar with liquid laxative before stashing it came to mind and felt very satisfying. But as lieutenant, she couldn’t afford to have anyone in her bullpen suddenly shitting their pants while in the pursuit of justice. And yet, as she stared down at the smiley face, she seriously weighed serve and protect against vengeance. She’d think about it.

So then she decides to, it’s so fucking funny. Then she decides to head home. She stops by Peabody’s desk first to get a report on her progress. The wheelbase on my desk chair was loose. Oh, do you need me to call maintenance? Innocence, Eve wondered, or caginess. Hard to tell. No, I fixed it. Ha ha ha. Peabody’s brow creased. You okay, Dallas? I’m dandy, like candy, and I’m out.

AJ (01:24:03.406)
I’m in. Yeah.

AJ (01:24:30.306)
Leave. I mean, it’s a good try.

Tara (01:24:34.935)
That’s a good try. For those of us who are reading the books, it’s so good to know that she’s actually never going to like resolve this. And it’s so great because that just means we get endless scenes like this until

AJ (01:24:45.175)
Right.

AJ (01:24:49.358)
Well, and I’m glad that it’s like she’s stepping it up a little bit, not just like it’s gone, because I think this is the first time that she actually finds something in place of it. Right.

Tara (01:24:54.755)
Right?

Tara (01:24:59.264)
Someone is…

Someone has been taunting her. It’s so good. Oh my God. So then, so she hits a few more galleries on the way home. And once she gets home, she finds Galahad was pissed at her for having a dog, for having dog scent on her. And then Roarke was home and he looked so exhausted. He convinced her to go with him to sit by the pond and have a drink instead of immediately working again.

They talk about costumes and art and other things related to the case while they had their dinner. Eve tells him the latest with the candy thief. Darling Eve, would never, oh this is from the book, Darling Eve, I’d never deny you candy now would I? Probably not. And you’re too slick to taunt me, she ate, gestured with her fork. They put a big yellow smiley face in there with these googly eyes. You know the shaky eyes? It laughed when you pressed it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

He laughed, not a mocking ha ha ha, but a warm, appreciative role of it. You can’t deny it’s clever. She contemplates coding the next. The next chop. yeah. The next bar of chocolate with liquid laxative thinks that’s a bit too extreme. that’s OK. No, it’s OK. Yeah, but Rorka is like, that’s a bit too extreme. To be fair, Eve was also considering that that was maybe too much, but.

AJ (01:26:03.0)
you

AJ (01:26:07.266)
Sorry, coating.

Tara (01:26:27.043)
You know, let’s not deny her her fantasies there. So that was 11 and 12.

AJ (01:26:30.572)
Right.

AJ (01:26:34.008)
So, yes, and my 13 is really short.

Eve, Eve, see I was doing the talk to text and it really wasn’t working for me here.

Tara (01:26:47.139)
Tasha text is rude, but also sometimes helpful.

AJ (01:26:50.388)
it, well, it makes it goes go faster. so Eve wanted to question some of Robert Wren’s associates. So essentially her and Rorick drove down to Times Square. and I thought it was funny cause Eve was like, cause they were going to have dinner and Eve said, okay, but, I have to go out later, you know, and Rorick said, so where are we going?

So he’s obvious, you know, she’s saying I have to go out and he was like, yeah, really? Where are we going? Because obviously he’s going with her.

let’s see. And he took a gun with him. She says, you know, you’re wearing a jacket because you’re carrying. he’s like, of course I’m carrying. We’re going downtown to a section of town that has, you know, you know, prostitutes and. You know, rated X movie theaters. So obviously, you know, they find he carries a lot. Yeah.

Tara (01:27:49.123)
right.

Tara (01:27:53.271)
Also, feel like work carries a lot anyway.

AJ (01:27:58.47)
and that’s one of the things that the last, when I did the episode with, Dana, and we were talking about scary Roarke women. Then the first one we talked about was the one in naked where he breaks into her apartment. He’s there when she comes home and, he says to her, I’m not caring. can, you can search me if you want. She doesn’t. And I was, and I told Dana he, he was, he fucking was caring.

Like, don’t tell me you weren’t caring. You were caring. Yeah, don’t… Now we know you. You were absolutely caring.

Tara (01:28:31.491)
Come on, Roarke, you were carrying.

Tara (01:28:37.249)
We know what you’re about.

AJ (01:28:41.854)
so they find Bobby’s best friends, Luce and Ansel, and they have discussion with them. And these two are really like broken up about it. So again, it’s a contrast between Bobby and, Lisa because people she worked with were like, yeah, she was a pissy ass. didn’t like her, but,

Tara (01:28:52.803)
Thanks

Tara (01:28:59.219)
So yeah.

AJ (01:29:06.956)
Bobby has these two people that are his best friends and they really cared about him, you know. And his mother really cared about him and his sister, so like, it’s a little contrast there. So, and I think this is, isn’t this when Roarke,

gives the one they ask a couple of people where they can find loose and Ansel and Roarke gives one of one of them like 50 bucks or something twice because after they’re finished questioning her Eve turns around he gives the lady another like 50 years up so

Tara (01:29:33.592)
Yeah.

Tara (01:29:37.911)
Yes.

twice.

Tara (01:29:50.755)
Yeah, and then she’s like, now I have to more fucking paperwork.

AJ (01:29:53.838)
Yeah, but he said no you were turned around you didn’t see it so no paperwork involved So all right good for you So they head home and as they head home Jonathan Harper Ebersole was picking up his next victim

Tara (01:30:14.317)
Yeah, he saw.

AJ (01:30:16.226)
He really does.

Tara (01:30:22.049)
So, okay, chapter 14. I’m just gonna every few minutes be like, this guy sucks. He does. So that night while Eve slept, she had a dream about being in a museum and the paintings of Lisa and Bobby arguing with each other and with her. She woke up, went down and did 20 laps in the pool, came back up and took a shower. And when she got out, Rorick was waiting with a full Irish breakfast.

AJ (01:30:28.504)
I mean, yeah.

Tara (01:30:50.403)
He helps her pick out her outfit and told her that he eliminated one of the costume shops on her list. As soon as she was done getting dressed, she got a call from dispatch for another homicide. Both she and Rorke go to the scene. The 911 caller is Natalie Hornsby, who is employed by Rorke as a mechanical engineer. Her husband, Carter, manages the Morgenstern Gallery, but he is out of town. Rorke identifies the victim, Jeanette Withers.

as being used to replicate, I don’t know how to pronounce this name, but, if I gave, yeah, LeBrunes self-portrait in a straw hat. Due to a bunch of the factors at the scene, they figure out roughly how much time it takes, how much time does it take the killer to pick up his victim, do whatever he needed to do, and then place her where she was.

AJ (01:31:27.182)
Let’s just say it, LeBrunes. No.

Tara (01:31:46.562)
Because of this, they decided that he must live somewhere downtown. Because the painting the killer is replicating is of a painter who’s holding a palette and paintbrush. They figure they could use that to figure out who made the paints and paintbrush and where they could have been purchased. So just more lines to tug on.

AJ (01:32:03.086)
You’re right.

AJ (01:32:07.272)
do you want to read chapter 15?

Tara (01:32:10.049)
Sure. Also, and then in chapter 15, it’s basically just them running down leads. A lot of that.

AJ (01:32:15.47)
I mean that’s yeah, there’s a lot of that so I thought why am I I don’t I don’t need to that’s just basically what it is so

Tara (01:32:22.019)
And there’s a lot of them. yeah.

AJ (01:32:26.478)
Right, yeah, because they’re looking at a lot of different places that could supply all of these different things that the guy would need. So, Chapter 16. Nadine is waiting for Eve in her office with brownies. Eve basically gives her the standard line of they are investigating all the leads. This is from the book, Nadine sat, absorbed. That’s it? That’s all you can give me? Eve considered.

We believe the suspect is a failed artist whose substandard work has been rejected by multiple galleries in the city. Nadine angled her head, her sharp green eyes narrowed. You want to insult him? I can get behind that. Yeah, I do. Pissed-off psychopaths make more mistakes. So once Nadine leaves, Eve talks to Nedley Hornsby again, who says her husband Carter’s flight has been delayed.

and that he’s the one who would know if they rejected any artists. Eve then talks to Brandida Klein. Brandida says that the suspect, Brandida I think is a manager of another gallery. And her impressions of the guy is that he is a young, arrogant, unimpressive portrait artist.

Tara (01:33:39.477)
Yes.

AJ (01:33:49.016)
who lived off family money and had an inflated ego. Though Klein couldn’t remember his name or face, she recalled his bragging about a successful show and most importantly, his dramatic claim that his mother could buy the gallery and everything in it.

And I think she called him a mama’s boy. This mama’s boy detail gives Eve the new angle to pursue. The killer’s wealth and entitlement may come from his money, or his mother’s money and influence.

AJ (01:34:24.344)
Eve.

AJ (01:34:34.23)
I was just going to say that reminds me of one time when I was working at the record store and the guy came in and he was buying some stuff and he gave me a credit card. And at that time we were very picky about like people give us a credit card and it needs to have this. The policy of that company was you, the credit card had to belong to the person using it. Right.

So couldn’t like give somebody like they had, had one kid that came in and it was his grandma’s credit card. told us and his grandma let him use it. And we were like, sorry, but this guy came in, he was like business suit and everything like that gives me this, American express card. And I look at it and very clearly has a woman’s name on it. And I was like, this is this, is this your credit card? And he’s like, this is my wife’s credit card.

Tara (01:34:58.125)
Right.

AJ (01:35:25.336)
And I was like, I’m so sorry. You know, the company policy is it has to be your credit card. I have to see your identification. has to have the name has to match all of that. And he was like, I don’t understand, like just use the credit. It’s my wife’s credit card and I’m fine using it. So use it. And I was like, well, I’m a company policy, whatever. And he’s like, do you want, do you understand what this is? This is a platinum American Express card.

Tara (01:35:53.422)
my god, okay.

AJ (01:35:53.942)
I could go out right now and buy a home with this car. So I think it’s fine for you to take. And I was like, okay, like, dude, it doesn’t have your name on it. And I’m sorry, that’s company policy. Like, yeah, exactly. And that’s what I was trying to say. Like entitlement, like rules still apply to everyone. And it’s company policy.

Tara (01:35:56.42)
Why don’t you do that?

Okay, but it’s not because this is Again the people who just think that rules don’t apply to them

AJ (01:36:19.85)
And, you know, I don’t know what to tell you. And I think what happened was he probably called the manager over and managers could usually, and I, and that’s what I would tell people. Like if you want to call the manager, I can call the manager. If they say, okay, I’ll take it. You know, but I’m telling you it’s a company policy, but, yeah, they’re the entitled people that were out there. Like, I don’t, you know, and look, dude, I, I’m great that it’s a platinum.

card but guess what, ain’t yours is it? So you’re not giving me your platinum card. right. Anyway, so then Eve updates Whitney on the case and then while talking to him.

Tara (01:36:53.421)
Right? Nice, but it’s not yours. Asshole.

AJ (01:37:08.3)
She makes the connection that if this guy is trying to replicate as closely as possible paintings by 18th century artists, he would most likely be getting all of his supplies from France or some other European country. So they need to focus on suppliers in France. She gives different assignments to everyone in her bullpen to try to run down any of the supplies, including clothing, lace, and other materials.

then, Eve talks again to Rio who is working on getting all of the international warrants. Finally, Carter Morgan Stern contacts Eve back. He’s the guy that owned the, you know, the,

Tara (01:37:52.364)
gallery that

AJ (01:37:53.15)
the gallery that, you know, his wife that works for Rorick, blah, blah. So she asks him to come down to Cuff Central to give her a statement.

Tara (01:37:59.15)
Yes.

Tara (01:38:06.967)
So chapter 17, the point of view switches to Jonathan Hart forever soul.

AJ (01:38:14.325)
Hahaha

Tara (01:38:14.797)
He’s, he is thinking about how famous he’s going to be when all his recent paintings are shown in a high end gallery. This is from the book. After the showing, he thought he might spend at least part of the winter in New Caledonia, where he could refresh himself, take time away from the obligations of fame. He could paint in peace while the art world speculated on what he would bring to them next.

He would have to ask his mother, of course, for the use of the family home there for a month or two, but she wouldn’t refuse. She never refused him anything. Or he might spend some time at the chateau in the French Alps, a complete change of pace, snow-drenched mountains, the icy blue lake, a roaring fire, something to think about, he decided. But either way, he’d need some solitude, some time away from the demands of the adoring public, time to focus on himself and his gift. Jesus Christ.

Right? This guy suck. what the fuck delusional fantasy do you live in, my guy? So then he speaks to his mommy on She goes on and on about how wonderful he is and that she has always known he was meant for great things. Yeah, fuck off. Then the point of views with just Eve and Carter and we’re like, fucking thank God I missed Eve.

AJ (01:39:12.07)
He’s horrible. Right? Yeah.

AJ (01:39:23.107)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (01:39:30.946)
Okay, you’re not helping, Mom.

Tara (01:39:39.798)
Anyway, so Carter Morgan’s turn is finally at Cop Central. This poor man, like, clearly had a fucking day. He’s great. She briefs him on all the details of what they found at his home and asked him several questions about whether or not they had disgruntled artists. He decides to make a call to his assistant, Travis, to see if he remembers anything, which he does. Peabody finds Carter a sketchbook and working with Travis,

AJ (01:39:45.87)
Yeah, I know.

Tara (01:40:09.197)
Carter sketches out a picture of the face that they remember. Then Yancey comes in and Eve has him work with Carter to possibly get a better match. At this point, Trueheart comes in and says he spoke to a shop owner in France who remembers a guy with that same description wanting to order some fabric from her shop and being very rude. And Baxter has a guy in Tribeca who sells cheese and thinks he remembers their guy. Then Peabody hears back from a guy in France who sold some paintbrushes to a guy calling himself

J.H. Artiste. Obviously the last name is made up, but they think J.H. is possibly his actual initials. It’s great, like all of this like, and then this, then this, and then this. It’s so good. Because there are all these lines to tug. So then Eve has the computer do a run on anyone in the Tribeca area who has a registered vehicle with the name initials being J.H. They weren’t having a whole lot of luck, so she instead tells the computer to run for businesses names with the initials J.H.

AJ (01:40:41.25)
Right.

AJ (01:40:48.374)
It’s all happening at one time, yeah.

Tara (01:41:08.215)
computer comes back with the Harper Group. Then Roarke comes in. He’s been looking at the financials and found several items of the ones they’re looking for having been bought with a credit card under the business name, the Harper Group. And the signature definitely started with J.H. You’ve asked, Eve asked Roarke to, sorry, Eve asked Roarke to find the name and he manages to come up with Jonathan Harper Eversole.

AJ (01:41:25.971)
Eve.

AJ (01:41:33.25)
That wasn’t your fault. That’s talk to text.

Tara (01:41:36.235)
It’s okay. So yeah, it’s a great chapter just being like, my god, and we’re just like, this, this, this, this, like, in the, in the bullpen, it’s great. Is it always like this? Poor Carter, he’s just had a long day. And then he’s like, have I stepped into another dimension?

AJ (01:41:43.118)
Yeah, and Carter’s looking around like, the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. He really has.

Yeah.

AJ (01:41:59.31)
So they’re gonna go after this guy.

Tara (01:42:08.61)
Yeah.

AJ (01:42:10.062)
So that chapter 18 starts out with this from the book. When Roarke stepped out with Carter, Eve turned to Feeney. I could use the van and McNabb. We need to verify he’s inside and it may be necessary to shut down the security and locks. You can have the boy. I’ll take the wheel and tag along. Sheila’s gonna make a night of it. Sheila’s out with friends, I think.

Tara (01:42:36.547)
Good for Sheila.

AJ (01:42:39.0)
Fine with me, the rest of you are dismissed. Good work.” “‘Ain’t no, Baxter said. We do good work and then get tossed before the takedown? Come on, Dallas.” “‘He’s one spoiled coward of an asshole. I don’t need a squad to take him down.’ “‘Seems like we’re being punished,’ Carmichael put in. Me and my hat-wearing partner dug pretty deep.” “‘Takedowns, they’re the icing,’ Reinecke added.”

I talked about silk and straw hats with a French lady. True Heart added his earnest smile. You want to ride along, ride along. Everyone, anyone else gets dead at the first up or out. She’s a stern boss, but a fair one, Baxter concluded. Roarke gives her some details that he managed to find on Ebersole and the Harper group.

Tara (01:43:12.451)
I’m sure I…

Tara (01:43:27.843)
Great, we’ll see you.

AJ (01:43:34.998)
including where Jonathan Harper Everstahl had likely had his studio. They set up a conference room to plan the op and the whole bullpen is there, including for some reason I couldn’t figure out Dr. Mira by, you know, video link. I couldn’t figure, why is she there? Why did they need her at this point? Maybe, I don’t know, but she’s there.

Tara (01:43:53.06)
Well, maybe she also was having FOMO like the rest of the fucking bullpen

AJ (01:44:00.722)
and then of course, Roarke comes in because he’s ordered tons of pizza for everyone. And good for you, Roarke. Like they bring in all this pizza and then that makes Mira hungry for pizza. And Roarke tells her that he’s already ordered pizza to be sent to her home. Cause he’s just that thoughtful.

Tara (01:44:05.603)
Hell yeah, thanks for it.

Tara (01:44:18.179)
Just like, got you. I got you on the pizza. was like, Mira is going to be on this call. So you know what? I’m going to call Dennis. Dennis, listen, you’re having pizza for dinner tonight. She’s going to want pizza.

AJ (01:44:22.433)
Right?

AJ (01:44:29.63)
Right, exactly. Because you know what, I don’t know if you’re the same way, but I, you know, it could be like days, weeks, months that I don’t think about pizza, but as soon as somebody says pizza, then I’m like, pizza. I need some pizza.

Tara (01:44:44.867)
Yeah, I’m I am like that. if I listen, sometimes I just want pizza. But if there is pizza around, I have to have it. But to be fair, I don’t like cold pizza. And there are people who like a lot of people like cold pizza. I don’t. Yeah, I literally most people I know, I’m like, I’m good. But man, like, I fucking love pizza. Like.

AJ (01:45:00.366)
I love Copa, I’ll eat pizza in any fashion.

AJ (01:45:11.01)
Pizza. I might have to have pizza today.

Tara (01:45:13.547)
I know, me too. Like this was happening and I was like, after this, do I have time to have pizza before I head out to the theater? Maybe.

AJ (01:45:24.59)
Yeah, I mean, you know.

Tara (01:45:27.683)
You

AJ (01:45:29.464)
Pizza.

Tara (01:45:30.755)
Like, just… It’s okay. It’s all right. Chapter 19. Jonathan Harper Eversole in his studio with his next… Excuse me. He is in his studio with his next victim when even her team arrive. Even though Eversole tries to take his victim hostage with a palette knife, the team takes him down easily. This potential victim is Aaron Pine. This is from the book.

AJ (01:45:34.071)
Yep.

Tara (01:45:59.767)
Who are you supposed to be? Jenkinson asked Aaron. I don’t know, some guy from history. Dr. Pauzy at home, work supplied. John Senior Sergeant. Dr. Pauzy was a 19th century French gynecologist. Seriously? Was Jenkinson’s response, as Aaron just put his head in his hands and moaned, also reputed to be quite the ladies man in non-professional ways.

AJ (01:46:23.49)
Okay, so here’s some more history we’re gonna learn from Nora. Thank you very much.

Tara (01:46:28.269)
Thanks. So according to Wikipedia, specialized in gynecological and abdominal surgery, establishing the first chair of gynecology in Paris in 1884 and performing the last gastroenterologist, the first, I can’t read, hold on, and performing the first gastroenterologist,

AJ (01:46:43.094)
The first.

Tara (01:46:50.507)
I literally… No, it’s… Yeah, it’s a gastroenterostomy, which is… I’m not really sure exactly how that’s different from other things. Anyway, his personal life was marked by a tumultuous marriage, multiple affairs. He died in 1918 when a disgruntled patient fatally shot him. yes. So that’s…

AJ (01:46:52.472)
Gastro… interostomy?

AJ (01:46:58.477)
Okay.

Tara (01:47:19.809)
That’s that guy.

Look, Nora’s just teaching us things. Thanks, Nora.

AJ (01:47:26.894)
Also, I wasn’t really I wasn’t really I didn’t know John Singer Sargent necessarily. I knew the name, though, because I’ve been really into. no, I feel bad.

AJ (01:48:03.266)
I have been, I’ve been really into Rufus Wainwright. So I’ve been really into Rufus Wainwright recently and he, Rufus Wainwright does a, one of his biggest songs. It’s a song called The Art Teacher. And it’s basically, it’s, it’s interesting because it’s from the point of view of a woman who is in love with her art teacher.

Tara (01:48:09.377)
Yes, okay.

AJ (01:48:33.298)
And so that’s what the that’s what the song is about. And it did one part of the song, it says that they go to the museum and that she tells the teacher she she likes the John Singer Sargent’s and he said he likes Turner. Who is a. English painter.

But anyway, that’s where I heard the name John Singer Sargent. So when it came up, I was like, hey, I know that name. I just don’t know anything he’s ever done, but I do know that that’s So, Chapter 20. And I think this is the last chapter I have, so we’re just gonna have to wing it on the next couple of chapters.

Tara (01:49:06.179)
Hey, I’ve heard of that.

love that.

AJ (01:49:27.886)
So chapter 20, they find a bunch of stuff in Ebersol’s studio, including writings detailing his work. And that he had started his own autobiography. Where he wrote his own forward. This is from the book. In yet one more, he started to write his autobiography. He titled it, The Artist, The Artist, The Gifted Life of Jonathan Harper Ebersol.

Though he’d yet to reach beyond his own childhood, he’d written his own forward. I was born to create art. I realize my vision with pigment and brush. This is both my gift and my curse. To be filled with this vision, this talent, this purpose, demands sacrifice, even suffering. Every true artist faces the brutality of rejection.

the cruelty of criticism, and worse than these, more brutal, more cruel, apathy. How many of the gifted through the ages have been driven to suicide by the apathetic, by those who blithely consider themselves lovers of art? While I sacrificed, while I suffered, while the blades of apathy cut deep, I determined this would not be my fate. I would live, I would paint, I would humble those

who turn their backs on my gift. Some will condemn my methods, but they are less than nothing to me. Those who truly understand my greatness know the power of art supersedes all else. With my gift, with my art, I bestowed immortality on those who were no one. Their life beats its pulse in the series I call The New Master Emerges. While my greatness works to date,

These will not be the last. In the following pages, I will take you on a journey of a life dedicated above all else to the God of art.

AJ (01:51:31.522)
What a fucking pretentious asshole.

Tara (01:51:36.771)
It’s like, how, okay.

AJ (01:51:39.615)
Ha ha ha!

Tara (01:51:41.603)
Just…

AJ (01:51:42.914)
You know.

Yeah, pretentious asshole.

So, essentially, they put Ebbersole in jail and then everyone goes home for the evening. And when they’re home, says something to Rorke, summer’s nearly over, right? You wouldn’t know it by the weather, but it’s waning, yes. Let’s have a barbecue thing. He turned, studied her. You’re very tired, aren’t you now? Not altogether lucid.

Tara (01:51:56.131)
Yes.

Tara (01:52:15.363)
You

AJ (01:52:19.946)
Actually, Wurring’s got me… I don’t know what, but I mean it. Or right now I do. They all dived right in, put in a full day, but dived right in, including you. He’s off the street because they did. You did. I know in my gut I’d have gotten him eventually, but it might not have been tonight. Without the help, I might be going to the morgue again in the morning. I’d be briefing the feds tomorrow. So we’ll have a barbecue.

She shrugged. You like them? They like them? Summer’s almost over and tonight Jonathan Harper-Ebersol sleeps in a cage. We’ll plan for Saturday then, or Sunday, if that works best. Including the mirrors? The Whitney’s? Yeah, yeah. She slid into bed with him. Galahad rolled over from his sprawl and curled at the smell of her back.

Nadine and Jake, we haven’t seen them much and we haven’t seen much of Charles and Louise of late. So we’ll see if they’re free. Maybe it’s the family, of course. See, this is what happens. You decide to do something nice and it balloons on you then the balloon pops and all the gunk inside spills all over you. Let me worry about that. I’ll enjoy it. He would, she thought.

Tara (01:53:26.572)
Hahaha!

AJ (01:53:37.122)
which was part of the why she’d said it. She’d be okay with it, but he’d love it. The next morning, yeah, it really is. The next morning, Eve wakes up and wonders what to wear right away and Rorke wonders where his wife went because first she wants to barbecue and now first thing in the morning she’s wondering what she should wear. So that’s not like Eve at all. And she says to him, what would you do if I started shopping for my own clothes?

Tara (01:53:43.459)
That’s so nice.

AJ (01:54:07.598)
And he says, after I’d been treated for shock, I’d implore Louise to give you a full medical workup, including a brain scan. Right. Then Eve gets a call from Rio because Eversole’s lawyers have already set up a bail hearing. And it is at 930 that morning.

Tara (01:54:10.627)
You

Tara (01:54:14.819)
It’s completely fair, Roarke. It’s completely fair.

Tara (01:54:27.093)
It’s like, what the fuck? did that happen so quickly? And we’re all going, money and power.

AJ (01:54:33.088)
Money and power, exactly. So that’s where I stopped.

Tara (01:54:40.354)
Yes.

AJ (01:54:42.838)
And essentially they do have a bail hearing.

Tara (01:54:45.645)
They do a bail hearing and I appreciate that like, they’re, you know, like her and Rio are like, they’re very wary of this because they’re like, this is not going to go well. Even though we have all of this stuff, we know because of fucking money that he’s going to be able to get this, this bail. And of course that’s exactly how it goes. There’s a, an interesting like interaction with, with

AJ (01:55:10.474)
Of course.

Tara (01:55:15.169)
his mom staring daggers at them all. And he was like, yeah, I’m not fucking afraid of you, bitch. And lo and behold, that’s what happens is that he manages to get bail and they’re all fucking smug about it. But Eve knew, like she knew some shenanigans were gonna go down. So she made a stop on the way. And that’s what Rio and Peabody are like, where is Eve?

AJ (01:55:18.452)
Right

Yeah.

AJ (01:55:41.791)
Right.

Tara (01:55:43.076)
And I like, when that happened, I was like, wait, what is happening? Where is Eve? And then, you know, then she tells, you know, she’s like, oh, had to make a stop. And you’re like, ah, she’s, she’s planning something, you know, and it’s so good. Cause she knows he’s going to get the bail and she’s got it all set up and they’ve got, they’re ready to, to like trail him and, you know, put surveillance on him.

AJ (01:55:47.276)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

AJ (01:55:59.959)
Yeah.

AJ (01:56:10.274)
Yeah, because she basically convinces the judge that he needs a monitor.

Tara (01:56:17.955)
Yeah, well, she did say that like in the book, it did say that this judge is pretty like, he likes, he often orders the monitor. And you know, Rio’s entire thing while she’s talking to this judge is like, literally, this guy is such a flight risk. Oh my God, how do you not see it? And I’m sorry, if you had to set, what was his bail like 50 million or something? If that is, if,

AJ (01:56:18.296)
So that’s how they’re.

AJ (01:56:28.987)
Right.

AJ (01:56:40.065)
Yeah.

Tara (01:56:48.865)
Yeah, if someone can hit $50 million, like you have to know this guy’s a flight risk. Like I feel like, I feel like Rio gave, obviously Rio gave everything that, was important. Like she was very, very thorough or whatever, but like use your fucking brain. Absolutely. This guy is a flight risk.

AJ (01:56:49.366)
You get $50 million.

AJ (01:56:55.126)
Right.

AJ (01:57:08.502)
Right. And really, 50 million, that sounds like a lot, you put up bail, you only put up a portion of that in cash.

Tara (01:57:17.131)
You do, you do only put up a portion of the mail. But still, it’s just, reflecting back to the power and money that these people have.

AJ (01:57:20.152)
So.

AJ (01:57:27.7)
Right, because somebody else would get in there, wouldn’t get bailed because they don’t have the money.

Tara (01:57:38.111)
And so that goes exactly how Eve expects it to. And then she…

AJ (01:57:43.082)
Yep.

Tara (01:57:47.099)
And then she gets several people involved still in the surveillance. then they’re watching, am I missing anything where they’re watching him on the monitors and they’re keeping track of the two? Because she had had, and I’m assuming, it was Roarke, she had Roarke slip that other tracker into the wallet, right?

AJ (01:58:15.626)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (01:58:16.565)
Yeah. So, you know, because he had to go get his personal effects. Now there’s now there’s a brand new tracker in there. So they like do the surveillance of the two trackers. And it’s they follow basically the quarter tracker being left behind. And then they follow them.

AJ (01:58:23.051)
Yeah.

AJ (01:58:36.182)
Right. Because they managed to get the tracker off and she has a, of her, somebody that works for her put the tracker on, yeah.

Tara (01:58:43.467)
Yeah, she has she has like an engineer or someone take that off. Yeah. Yeah, the mother, sorry, the mother basically pays to have it removed. so then she and Jonathan are of course trying to flee because that was literally what everyone’s concern was, because they fucking own their own private shuttles and all these people. Right. And then they follow. They they basically like follow them on.

AJ (01:58:51.799)
Right.

AJ (01:59:04.898)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (01:59:11.501)
through tracking and they realize which transposition they’re going to. And so it’s like Eve and Feeny and Peabody, I think, get there before them. And then they’re like, you know, they tell the pilot, is, you know, this is what’s going on. And then they get out of the car and he tries to run and Eve is like, yeah, no, I gotta, I gotta take this little fucking baby down.

AJ (01:59:24.664)
Yeah.

AJ (01:59:41.484)
Right. And then also she they’ve called they’ve called Nadine. So Nadine’s got helicopters.

Tara (01:59:41.939)
And we get like, it’s great.

Tara (01:59:47.883)
And Nate Dean is like streaming this shit live to the world, it’s great.

AJ (01:59:52.351)
Right.

And there’s times when I, when I do feel like Nora kind of takes from real life situations, but I can’t say for sure, but there was a case and it was a pretty big case. can’t remember exactly where, which state it was in, but, um, it was a murder case. Uh, some guy got murdered and the police figured out that it was a paid hit.

And they had evidence on the guy’s brother-in-law having arranged the paid hit with two people that he knew. They weren’t people that he knew well. It was like his mother’s, his mother’s like maid’s sister, I can’t remember.

he, thought it was, it was too far removed for him that from him that they wouldn’t find out, but of course they did. and so he, he killed his brother-in-law, his sister actually testified against him. But apparently that whole time they charged him cause that’s who they had the evidence on. But apparently that whole time they were also investigating the sister and the parents.

The mother, especially because they felt like they were all in on it. Like the brother didn’t act alone. and I think they had enough evidence on the mother at least to charge her. And prior to that happening, they had to catch her at the airport cause she and her husband decided to get a one way ticket to like.

AJ (02:01:55.188)
some country that didn’t extradite. And they found her at the airport and they picked her up and she was like, what are you talking about? We were just going on vacation. And they put the mother on trial because apparently she had had text messages to the to the son. About this, where they were kind of talking in code, but you could clearly tell that they were talking about him setting up the murder of this guy.

So, but they were another that they actually had not as much money as these people, but they had money. So, and I don’t know that I think I’ll have to look it up, the sister also testified against the mom. But I think they’re thinking to go after the sister as well. They have evidence to go after her too for this. So.

So, you know, art imitates life or…

you

Tara (02:02:59.011)
Right? Crazy.

AJ (02:03:01.239)
Yeah.

So, so yeah, they take both of them at the airport.

Tara (02:03:06.883)
guess what your bail is romance is like not not happening now sorry literally that’s how this fucking works idiots

AJ (02:03:10.83)
Right.

AJ (02:03:17.91)
Yeah. And then doesn’t Eve, is that in the, when she talks to the mom? When she questions the mom on, is that the, epilogue?

Tara (02:03:29.204)
Yes.

Tara (02:03:35.575)
That’s the epilogue, yeah. That’s like the, right? Or is the epilogue?

AJ (02:03:42.922)
No, it’s not the epilogue. It’s right before the epilogue.

AJ (02:03:54.414)
So yeah, they questioned the mother and then they questioned him.

Tara (02:04:02.528)
And it is fascinating like just how fucking delusional these people are because they’re rich

AJ (02:04:10.391)
Right.

AJ (02:04:20.642)
But yeah, I mean, he wrote everything down, so it’s not like…

Tara (02:04:26.627)
And then and

AJ (02:04:26.826)
And I think it is said that he mentioned to his mother what he was doing and she was like, okay.

Tara (02:04:32.331)
Yes. Yeah, so she also like, and it’s there’s like a section where Eve is like, this was a nice, a little gift he like gave us that, his mother does know. Okay, well now we can get her for like, conspiracy after the, you know, like all of that. And you’re like, hell yeah, because we don’t like this bitch. We want her to go down too. And it’s, it’s it’s a pretty, it’s a, it’s a pretty like, and Eve also like tricks him into

AJ (02:04:44.302)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (02:04:50.623)
Right.

AJ (02:04:55.02)
Yeah, she’s horrible.

Tara (02:05:01.869)
giving the details because he like he literally falls for her for her being well dressed as fuck and wearing the diamond earrings. The complete opposite of his mother who was like, you think you understand what it’s like to be part of this elitist crowd or whatever. He was like, I know what it’s like to be a cop doing my fucking job, bitch. And then with him, like, you know, she kind of slowly gets to this point where she

AJ (02:05:13.141)
Right.

AJ (02:05:24.054)
Right.

Tara (02:05:30.859)
recognizes that the way to get him to to admit everything is to be like, yeah, I see what you’re doing. And I recognize all of this and him, him being, yeah, he’s like, he’s clearly impressed by that. And he like, is like, dumb as fuck, you know, being like, this woman has been trying to arrest you for three days. And you’re like, yeah, she’s suddenly is very impressed with my work. She’s a fucking idiot. And it

AJ (02:05:41.888)
Yeah, I see the vision.

AJ (02:05:47.115)
Right.

AJ (02:05:59.058)
Right. Because she says, I can recognize great art when I see it, you have far too many details of your models to claim you just she flicked her fingers made them up. Those paintings are alive. So maybe I get to some extent why you decided to prove that what you decided to prove to the critics why I get why you need to prove you could not only match the masters but exceed them. So good job, Eve.

Tara (02:06:01.383)
Tara (02:06:28.323)
Yeah, it’s pretty fucking fantastic. And then,

Your clock.

AJ (02:06:38.73)
I know. And he’s saying, yes, tears of joy sprang to his eyes. Yes, yes, you see at last. They were nothing common whores. I made them icons who live forever. Dummy.

Tara (02:06:53.027)
And then at the end she could be like, actually your art is shit, dude. It’s so great.

AJ (02:06:57.287)
Yeah.

Tara (02:07:02.519)
so good. mean, and that’s essentially they, you know, like they talk about, they talk a little bit more about the, the barbecue that’s going to happen. she didn’t go home. It’s very nice.

AJ (02:07:17.142)
Yeah, well Whitney tells her that the family did go to the governor.

Tara (02:07:20.801)
of this.

Tara (02:07:25.442)
Yes.

AJ (02:07:28.458)
about it, you know, it’s like nice try.

Tara (02:07:30.595)
Nice try.

AJ (02:07:38.229)
she did question the mother in the epilogue. That’s an epilogue, yeah.

Tara (02:07:42.551)
That’s in the epilogue.

AJ (02:07:48.568)
So.

AJ (02:07:52.461)
Yes.

Tara (02:07:52.772)
It was, yeah, again, the end of the book was just a lot more satisfying than the rest of the book. But I still like, like I said, it was a solid installment for me.

AJ (02:08:06.06)
Yeah, the last couple chapters were really fun.

It’s always really fun when there’s people that you hate and she takes them down.

Tara (02:08:15.309)
you

AJ (02:08:18.775)
So.

Anywho, so who gets accommodation in this book?

Tara (02:08:26.775)
Maybe can have a combination to Rio.

AJ (02:08:30.093)
Yeah.

Tara (02:08:31.011)
I obviously like one, we love Rio. But first of all, she worked really hard to get those fucking international warrants. And I do appreciate that Eve didn’t bother saying I didn’t actually need those probably now, after all. That’s probably for the best. However, I also just appreciate like how invested she was physically at the end of the book, too. and I, I don’t know, I just just it was nice to spend some time with her.

AJ (02:08:43.679)
Hahaha

Tara (02:08:59.235)
and her being a lawyer, but also her being part of the action. I don’t know. It was just a nice little time with Rio, and I appreciate that.

AJ (02:09:09.89)
Yeah.

AJ (02:09:17.516)
Who am gonna get mine to?

AJ (02:09:23.602)
I, you know, I’m going to give mine to work this time. Well, he did a lot. He did a lot for that.

Tara (02:09:27.331)
Yeah. Go on. He really did. And he also wasn’t like pushy into the investigation. He was just very handy. I don’t know. Yeah. I it’s a good choice.

AJ (02:09:36.043)
No.

AJ (02:09:40.654)
Mm hmm. Well, yeah, he’s very handy. He gave her that like cheat sheet of artworks that she could use, you know, just in case. you know, looking into the financials, which he always does, but he’s going with her to the great house project and putting a ribbon in his hair.

And which I mean, you know, that’s actually it was way more ridiculous for me to have Eve put a ribbon in her hair than him, because he always does that anyway. So but he does it and, you know, he he very understanding when she’s out of character by, you know, thinking about picking out her own clothes and. You know, I just I just really liked him in this book.

Tara (02:10:12.931)
Right, yeah.

Tara (02:10:34.499)
Yeah, I also was, you know, I was really just like, yeah, fuck, Roarke is fucking great in this book. I mean, Roarke is always fucking great. But like, for whatever reason, there have been times where I’m just like, he’s he’s a little more frustrating for me. And I did not feel that way in this book at all.

AJ (02:10:52.224)
Yeah, yeah, no. No, he wasn’t frustrating in this book. So for us, mean, who knows what you know, people on review, the reviews are going to feel about this, but they will. They they do always do so. All right, so should we move on to podcast business then?

Tara (02:10:58.317)
So yeah.

For us, I’m… People will have feelings, they always do.

Tara (02:11:15.512)
Yeah.

AJ (02:11:20.654)
So we do have a new patron.

The new patron is Katie O’Brien. She just became a new patron. She paid for the year. So thanks so much. And as a new patron.

Tara (02:11:34.979)
Thanks, Katie.

AJ (02:11:50.986)
She’s gonna get all our merch that you’d normally get when you’re an eight dollar patron, but She gets all of the trading cards, which the second set of trading cards. I sent out to all of our patrons Just a couple days ago

Tara (02:12:06.019)
Yay! I’m looking forward to that.

AJ (02:12:08.236)
Yes, I made sure that you’re on the list this time.

Tara (02:12:12.035)
It’s all good. It’s fine.

AJ (02:12:13.934)
Um, but, uh, so yeah, those, those trading cards are going to go out to everybody. So, uh, if you’re a patron and you don’t get one, you know, send me an email. Uh, cause not a lot of the patrons don’t have their, their mailing addresses. So I did send a message to a lot of the patrons that are on there that don’t have, that I don’t have their mailing addresses. And I said, Hey, you know, please give me your mailing address so I can send you this. But, uh,

Anyway, if you’re not a patron, you might want to think about becoming a patron. And you too can get the exclusive patron trading cards and all the other merch. If you give it the $8 level, you can get all the other merch that we have. And you can get our briefing room episodes. There’s a lot of perks for the patrons. you know, think about becoming a patron.

And I think that’s it. I don’t think I have anything else.

Tara (02:13:19.875)
don’t have anything.

AJ (02:13:22.413)
I do have something.

Tara (02:13:24.227)
There you go.

AJ (02:13:25.282)
So my idea that I had for our, it’s possibly the next episode, but we’ll wait and see. And I’m saying this now because…

AJ (02:13:42.06)
I’m trying to think of when, when, the timing is.

whether I should say something because I’m talking about the episode about the video game. But if we put out this episode next Saturday and we record next Saturday, that means that people won’t get a chance to voice their opinions about the video game. So I’m thinking like, should I even say anything?

Tara (02:13:55.448)
Yeah.

Tara (02:14:12.319)
Okay.

Tara (02:14:17.901)
Well, I mean, what do you want to record next week? Do you want to?

that the following week?

AJ (02:14:25.934)
I don’t know. So that’s why I was thinking. Then next week we’d have to come up with something. We could do review the reviews next week. OK. So. So what I was thinking for an upcoming episode is I thought about the video game that Feeny made for Roar.

Tara (02:14:32.417)
I’m okay with that.

AJ (02:14:51.712)
for Eve to give to Roarke for Christmas. And the video game was the universe according to Roarke. I’ve already posted about this on our Facebook and on our Instagram, but I want to say it on the show because I want to get some more like there might be people out there that aren’t on Facebook that might have some, some.

opinions on this. What I want is I want us to like imagine what that video game would be like what, how would it play? What would the different levels be? You know, how, how do you power up? How do you die? How do you get extra points? You know, and we’ve gotten a lot of feedback so far on our Facebook page that

is, you know, really cool ways that we can bring in Easter eggs from the books and that kind of thing. But again, I just wanted to put it out to everyone to kind of see if anyone out there has an opinion of how they think this game should be played. This video game and what the features should be and all of that. So.

You can, if you have an opinion on that, you can send us an email, that show at podcastindeaf.com. You can visit our Facebook page. If you’re a member of our Facebook, visit our Facebook page, find that post that I made and comment on that. You can call the number, which I don’t ever know what it is.

205-476-2753. Okay.

Tara (02:16:31.009)
sounds right, but I wouldn’t have been able to pull that out either. Just sounds right, you know?

AJ (02:16:35.214)
It does sound right, doesn’t it? It really does sound right. Let’s see here. 205-476-2753. I was right. And that spells out 2054-Borg. You can text that number. You can leave a message. You can leave a voicemail.

Tara (02:16:42.815)
This is how we work, guys.

Tara (02:16:51.49)
Yes!

AJ (02:17:03.008)
any of those ways that you can get a hold of us. We’re also on Instagram. You can send me a message there and let us know what you think about the universe according to Roarke and how that game would be played. And I think that’s it. I think that’s all I want to say for this episode. So anything else that you would like to say, Tara?

Tara (02:17:26.111)
I don’t have anything.

AJ (02:17:27.982)
So I guess that’s it for this episode of Podcasts and Deaths. So for Podcasts and Deaths, this is AJ. And we’ll see you next week, Bye.

Tara (02:17:33.335)
This is Tara.

Bye guys.