Transcript

AJ (01:05.642)
Hey everyone, welcome once again to Podcast in Death, the weekly podcast where we discuss the In Death series of books by J.D. Robb. I am AJ.

Tara (01:14.711)
Tara.

AJ (01:16.116)
And this is episode 252 of Podcasts in Death. And in this episode, we are going to review Apprentice in Death.

Tara (01:26.456)
Yes.

AJ (01:28.398)
And I think we’re pretty much agreed that Willow Mackie’s a shitty human being. I mean, I hate to say it about a kid, yes, terrifying is yes, a good way to put that. And I was telling Tara that the the theme that I came up with for this book is kind of unusual. And

Tara (01:37.528)
terrifying.

AJ (01:59.574)
I don’t think that most people would have picked this for the theme. But I am I’m positive that this is the theme. Now you could go with a lot of themes on this one would be power because they say that a lot and Willow Mackie is like, you know, feeling the power. But you know, when you search for power,

in this book. I mean, it’s in there 20 times.

And with Eve saying like doing something like what they did makes you feel powerful. And that’s kind of what they’ve said a lot in this book about, you know, somebody who does something like this. That makes you feel powerful. And that the strikes were powerful and they talk about firepower and all of that kind of thing. So that could be a theme.

But as you know, I also look for other things besides like how many times something’s been used. I also look for the word to be used within like personal conversations or not in other ways in the book rather than just, you the normal ways that you would use a word. hate, I’m not explaining it.

Tara (03:08.321)
Yeah.

AJ (03:31.497)
Well.

Tara (03:32.589)
I know what you’re saying though.

AJ (03:34.126)
I also use it, I also try to look at something that has nothing to do with the case itself.

whether or not that thing that has nothing to do with the case itself has to do with the work. Like a conversation that even Roarke would have. What book was it that was the last book? What was the last book in this series? Brotherhood?

Brotherhood was the one where he brought up, where Roarke brought up wanting to redo Eve’s office.

Tara (04:18.561)
Yes.

AJ (04:19.016)
Is that, and I think I said in that one that the theme was change.

AJ (04:28.918)
Does that make sense? Does it sound right? Because I’m like, I’m like, I didn’t sound right at all.

Tara (04:29.119)
sounds right. I’m like trying to think back that sounds right.

Tara (04:35.895)
change or was it?

AJ (04:39.574)
Well, let’s look back because I don’t think I need to really explain it to everyone, but I’m going to anyway. Let’s search for brotherhood.

AJ (05:00.238)
And bring that up and see what we’ve got. Change. Yeah, the theme was change. And, yeah, and the reason for that in that book was, you know, because it was about a change. lot of it was about change. And one of the things that changed or that one of the proposed changes was the changes that Rorke wanted to make to Eve’s office space.

Tara (05:07.435)
That’s a set, that’s all.

AJ (05:27.88)
And they had a little argument about that. And that’s one of the reasons why I picked that word as the the theme. So I’d look for things like that. And I told Tara at first because I wasn’t going to tell her, but I had pity on her and I told her what it was ahead of time. But I.

Tara (05:47.223)
Yeah, because she was like, do you want to know? And I was like, yes, because you mentioned it. And I have to know. It’s just who I am as a person.

AJ (05:52.182)
And now I have to know. But what I first said was, it’s an unusual theme and I don’t think most people will pick this as the theme for this book. That’s what I said to you at first. And you said, okay. And I said, there’s a big hint to the theme in chapter 10.

Tara (06:14.765)
Yes, and I had not gotten there when you said that. I, when I got there, I was like, oh yeah. But I did not actually, and I remember being like, I should text AJ and be like, yeah, I know what you’re talking about. And then I didn’t.

AJ (06:22.217)
Hahaha

AJ (06:31.966)
Right? Because it’s so random that it was, you know, it’s so random that I just was like, this has got to be it. This has got to be her theme. So, I don’t want to, I don’t want people to wait any longer for, my saying what the theme is of the theme that I’ve picked for this book is cold.

Tara (06:34.718)
It’s very random.

Tara (06:54.509)
Yeah.

AJ (07:03.386)
in, so I always say it’s like in the first chapter of the book, in this case, there’s a prologue and, you know, it talks about, you know, this cold, bright afternoon in January, 2061, Mark, the true beginning. And it’s talking about the apprentice took aim, blah, blah, that whole thing. They shot several people.

And at a certain point, it said that this essentially needed a clear mind and cool blood. And cold blood is something that they talked about a lot in the book. Eve at one point goes to Feeney and they’re talking about the case and they’re talking about how Eve thinks that the, this is after they realized that

It was a younger person with there was a man and a younger boy or a younger girl. And Eve goes to Feenie and it’s like, I think it’s kind of a situation like with you and me, like he, this person took this younger kid on as an apprentice or as a, you know, as a trainer and trainee. And so they were talking about that a little bit in, in that book. This is chapter six.

and Feeney said, hang on. Sorry. My. I need some water.

Tara (08:35.373)
you

AJ (08:40.566)
So, so Feeney says, I’d say the trainee has to show, what’s it propensity for the work and some skill and the same cold blood. You can’t teach cold blood Dallas. It’s just got to be there.

AJ (09:03.452)
So, so yeah, I mean, this is Willow Mackie with just natural cold blood, essentially.

Tara (09:12.141)
naturally a psychopath.

AJ (09:14.422)
naturally a psychopath. So the thing that I told Tara that is a big indicator to me of the theme, because it was so random, why is this even? I mean, you know, she’ll put in random stuff every once in a while, but she never puts in anything that doesn’t work in this in the book. So when they realize that it’s

Sorry, what is the guy’s first name? William? Bill? Or no? The dead.

Tara (09:49.293)
The dad?

my god, Wow, his name just jumped out of my brain. It was right there. fuck.

AJ (09:55.632)
We’re really good at this.

AJ (10:03.092)
We are so good at this. mean, Reginald?

Tara (10:10.7)
Vaginal?

AJ (10:13.558)
Reginald Mackie, yes.

Tara (10:13.965)
That seems wrong. that’s right. Me, anytime I’m right, I’m like, am I actually right?

AJ (10:17.694)
Yeah. Good job.

Yeah. so when they realize it’s Reginald, Mackie and his daughter Willow, they’re looking into them and, Eva’s saying we need to find something, something, something habitual, some place that they might go habitually. And somebody, comes up, somebody finds that, they

frequent in ice cream shops.

AJ (10:56.592)
And it just so happens that that is an ice cream shop that Eve in fact owns because Roarke bought it for her and put it in her portfolio without telling her. So they mentioned this ice cream shop and Eve’s like, wait a minute, I own an ice cream shop? And he’s like, yeah, you own what to most, to a lot of people is the premier ice cream shop in New York because Roarke doesn’t buy just any old ice cream shop. He buys.

the best ice cream shop in New York City. So Eve, you know, owns this ice cream shop. so it comes up in the book that this place is called Divine.

And they’re in a meeting and Eve says, know, divine. And Jenkinson says best rocky road in the city. Just saying. And Eve, you know, at this point, she knows it’s hers. She knows she owns it. And she told Rorick like nobody needs, nobody can know about this, especially not Peabody. But so yeah, Jenkinson says best rocky road in the city.

Tara (12:04.761)
Especially not Peabody.

AJ (12:11.38)
Just saying and he’s like, your endorsements so noted. Apparently the suspects agree. Although she prefers the caramel sundae. We’ve learned the suspects indulge themselves after both strikes. And Feeny says fucking cold. And I ain’t talking ice cream.

So these are all the reasons why I decided that the theme was cold.

Tara (12:39.391)
I agree with it.

AJ (12:42.678)
Because you had to be really cold to do this kind of thing. And Will and Macky’s pretty cold.

Tara (12:46.167)
Yeah.

AJ (12:52.736)
So there you go.

Tara (12:55.605)
It’s, yeah, I really will get into it. I really struggle with this.

AJ (13:01.77)
with Willow.

Tara (13:03.285)
Yeah, it someone just…

Yeah. Being just like being so completely like like that. And again, it is psychopathic tendencies as Mira says at the end of the book.

AJ (13:08.086)
You’re like, yeah.

AJ (13:22.024)

AJ (18:10.42)
I don’t think Willow Mackey is somebody that otherwise you would think she was normal. And that’s something that they said all throughout this book,

Tara (18:15.149)
Yeah.

yeah, people were being like, something was off about that kid.

AJ (18:20.342)
Her eyes, the way that she looked at people. Yeah, so she’s one of those that could never like hide it.

So.

Tara (18:32.641)
that she cared about hiding it.

AJ (18:34.595)
No, she did not care about hiding it either. You’re right. Do you want to start with the…

Tara (18:36.489)
Hahaha

Tara (18:42.797)
Want to go ahead and yeah, do an outline.

AJ (18:43.689)
outline here.

Tara (18:53.421)
Let me scroll down past all your cold quotes.

Tara (19:09.549)
So, day one.

After years of practice, the apprentice makes the first kill. The target and two others. The power is incredible. The newest member of the Homicide Division, Officer Shelby, gets a black eye from Kemi head that afternoon. Lieutenant Eve Dallas hears that she handled it like a cop and Shelby brushes off the injury.

AJ (19:36.15)
Like, you know, Eve has some, a little bit of respect for her, you know, a little bit more respect than she already had because she has to have a lot of respect for her to bring her into her homicide mission. But a little bit more now.

Tara (19:40.308)
Eve has fe- yeah.

Tara (19:50.21)
Yeah.

Tara (19:53.586)
She’s like, I made a good choice. Yes, Eve.

AJ (19:56.104)
Right. Yeah. She can take a punch, so yes, good choice.

Tara (20:00.353)
Right? I love how it’s… Eve, it’s okay. This is just how Eve measures people. Can you take a punch? You’re a good fit. And then, then Dallas and Peabody are summoned to Wolman Rink in Central Park because there are three dead bodies. And so we have our first victims, 19 year old Alyssa Wyman, who is a semi pro skater and…

AJ (20:05.792)
Hahaha

AJ (20:10.164)
Right.

Right, yeah.

Tara (20:29.781)
regular at the rank and she died from a laser strike in the back. Second victim is 63 year old Dr. Brent Michelson, a doctor who was routinely at the rank killed by a gunshot from a laser. A gut shot, I can’t speak today. Gut shot from a laser. And the third victim, Alan Markham, is a teacher celebrating his five year wedding anniversary with his wife and he took the laser strike between the eyes.

Multiple people were wounded in the chaos. They were treated on site by a doctor and a veterinarian who had been an army medic. So he recognizes the sign of a long range laser strike and identifies the direction.

Yeah, and so that is the scene that we are actually seeing through the eyes of the apprentice in the opening scene. And now here we are with even Peabody talking to everyone who’s there. And so Peabody does all the follow-ups with the witnesses while Dallas does the death notifications. And she reaches out to Lieutenant Loewenbaum with the SWAT.

and tells him to meet her at home, which I love that in the the note, the notes you put in Dallas Palace, which is what he calls it. Yeah, he’s like, and he’s. I forgot that he had never been there before. Like in this read, I’ve only read this book like one other time, so I’d forgotten that, yeah, that he had never been. I was like, ah.

AJ (21:49.578)
Well, yeah, that’s what he calls it, yeah.

AJ (22:00.522)
Yeah.

AJ (22:05.61)
Yeah, I think I have to.

Tara (22:10.509)
Eve fucking loves that, not…

AJ (22:12.822)
Yeah, because she was thinking like as she hung up with him and she’s thinking about the case, but then it’s like a stray thought. She’s like, the Dallas Palace, is that how everyone sees it? How embarrassing? Like, you know, she’s like really embarrassed that everybody sees it as the Dallas Palace. Even though she’s pulling up to the house and she’s like, well, it does kind of look like a palace. It kind of does. Kind of does.

Tara (22:15.99)
Uh-uh.

Tara (22:29.837)
Eve.

Tara (22:36.589)
Yeah. So they consult there and they’re determining what the weapon is. A military or police issue high impact tactical long range laser rifle on a bipod or a tripod that the sniper has serious training who was a long distance serial killer or LDSK. And know how I live.

AJ (23:03.914)
Which I just thought it was funny that Roarke was like LDSK and they’re like, long, long distance serial killer. And he’s like, you cops make up these acronyms for every fucking thing. So yeah, Roarke feels the same way as you do.

Tara (23:05.685)
effronence.

Tara (23:16.659)
Acronyms are bogus. They’re bollocks, in fact.

Tara (23:24.787)
I fucking hate acronyms. Anyway, and I work in healthcare, so it’s a problem. And then Loewenbaum also helps refine the possible location for the sniper’s nest. This is from, yeah.

AJ (23:31.094)
Mmm.

AJ (23:37.494)
So this, so the, leaves out quite a bit. Because before this,

Tara (23:45.035)
Yeah.

AJ (23:52.232)
Yeah, so before this, she came in and Roarke was in her office waiting for her.

Tara (23:54.807)
Cough

Tara (23:59.83)
Yes!

and he has the… doesn’t he have the designs?

AJ (24:09.706)
Yes, he has the designs that the Charmaine sent over. And he says, just real quickly, we’ll just go through them real quick. And we don’t have to design anything right now. We’re just going to look at them and then you can think about it. And then later we’ll talk about it. And then…

Tara (24:17.079)
Yes.

Tara (24:30.541)
And then he was like, doesn’t he say like, we don’t have to look at these right now. And then she’s like, no, no, no, now I’m curious. Or is that later?

AJ (24:38.927)
let’s see.

Tara (24:43.981)
I thought it was like, she’s like, no, now I have to fucking know before I can move on, which is so relatable.

AJ (24:45.747)
Hang on a sec.

AJ (24:52.458)
Well, let me see what it says. That might have been later. I think that was later because, yeah, because they look at him a second time and she decides which one she likes better. But, but yeah, he said,

Tara (24:58.74)
yeah, was like, it could be later.

Tara (25:05.003)
Okay, yeah.

AJ (25:12.404)
Yeah, because he doesn’t say anything to her when she first comes in. She just says that she’s got a case and Loewenbaum’s coming over and he’s asking questions and blah, blah. And she’s saying, I need to set up my murder board, start the book. And he says, I can help you with that. And then she says, yeah, thanks. if you… And it says she turned. And once again, her heart stopped, but not in a good way.

Tara (25:18.049)
That’s right.

AJ (25:40.026)
On her wall screen lived a pink and purple nightmare. Pink walls with purple squiggles framed a room filled with worse. Some sort of S shaped seat sat in the middle of it all carrying pink squiggles on purple that mounted with pillows in every color with dizzying designs and fringe. A chair angled toward it pink again with big green dots and there were were those feathers?

Feathers rising up from the back in a bright rainbow fan. So she’s like, this can’t be real. And Roarke’s like, finally decided to let her off the hook because he thought this was gonna be a big joke and they’d play it out, but she’s on a case, so he’s like, can’t do that. Charmaine put it together as a joke.

which we’d have both enjoyed more if you didn’t have murder on your brain. And she’s like a joke. Designing what you’d call the polar opposite of what you’d want and need in a remodel here. Opposite. Completely opposite. I’ll add when she said this that the three actual des- and the three actual designs, she said she thought the shock of this would smooth the way to the others. And it’s just funny because it’s like, yeah, this woman got

Tara (26:48.597)
AJ (27:04.605)
got eve right away. yeah.

Tara (27:06.049)
Yeah, she gets it. Well, and unfortunately, you know, the day Eve had probably wouldn’t have hit her quite as hard as she had not kind of been like extra tense, you know.

AJ (27:18.078)
Yeah. Yeah. And the funny part is that, you will recall that Leonardo did the exact same thing to her when he, created her wedding dress. So this is something apparently people like to do to Eve a lot.

Tara (27:38.145)
Well, she’s very intense.

AJ (27:42.107)
hahahaha

Tara (27:44.046)
And it’s kind of fun to see how some people react to things. That said, I feel like I would not feel comfortable doing that to someone unless I already knew them. And Eve has not met Charmaine, who very smartly didn’t step foot in the home while Eve was there. wait, she did during in Brotherhood. Yes.

AJ (27:57.297)
hahahaha

AJ (28:07.392)
yes she did.

AJ (28:11.882)
Yes.

Tara (28:13.889)
But she didn’t know that’s true, but she didn’t. She hadn’t seen any of our stuff yet. But Leonardo, like, you don’t know this fucking woman and you’re like, how about this? Like that’s OK. Every time we’re given Leonardo shit for being kind of like a wuss, I take some of that back because Eve is terrifying and he did that.

AJ (28:20.598)
Right.

What?

AJ (28:30.056)
Yeah. I think, yeah, I think, I think it was a thing where like maybe he and,

maybe he and Mavis kind of sat and she was like, she’d like this, she’d like that. And in doing that, you know how you do like, maybe this and maybe this color, maybe it look like this. And then you start laughing. And then you then they probably came up this plan, like you should totally show this one to her and say that this is what you came up with.

Tara (28:43.766)
Maybe, yeah.

Tara (28:56.161)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (28:59.945)
yeah, yeah. Mavis is so behind that. Like she’s probably like, no, no, no, no, do this, do this. poor Eve. know, that’s just part of being that kind of person. But she shouldn’t be surprised. She shouldn’t be, she should be like, come on. my God, it was great though.

AJ (29:03.744)
Hahaha

Yeah, yeah, this is what you should do. It should be able to be so funny. Yeah.

AJ (29:17.906)
Yeah, people do that to her all the time I bet. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, the other thing it left out was, mean, it talked about Loewenbaum, but there was the whole interaction. And I put some of that in here that I just absolutely fucking loved with them and Loewenbaum. Because, know, Rorick is very territorial also, you know, and especially Loewenbaum had already said once that he tried to ask Eve out and she wouldn’t, she wasn’t having it. So he’s, you know,

Tara (29:54.337)
And Lone Mom was apparently really fucking hot, so.

AJ (29:57.92)
He’s, you know what he is, Tara, according to this book? Frosty, which goes with the theme of the Eve calls him Frosty, yes.

Tara (30:06.231)
The ah-ha-ha-ha. Even Eve calls him frosty. Like, it’s not just that Peabody is like, he’s cute. Eve says this.

AJ (30:15.508)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she wasn’t looking for just Frosty. She was looking for a criminal, apparently. She wasn’t looking, right, exactly.

Tara (30:18.317)
Right? She wasn’t looking. Let’s be clear.

Remember, remember Louise being like, that’s really fucking offensive. You’re not even looking and you get roared.

AJ (30:36.342)
Yeah, yeah. Not only that, she could have had Loewenbaum, apparently, who is also really frosty, but yeah. Yeah.

Tara (30:44.267)
Right? Must be nice. So here’s the quote that you put in from the book. A weapon like that has to be law enforcement or military. You can’t just pick one up at the local 24-7. Black Market may be a weapons runner, but that’s going to cost for one that’s not a piece of shit. 20 large, easy, low and bottom confirmed.

Even a licensed collector is going to find one hard to come by through legal means. A complicated process, Rorick said, but doable. Eve turned to him. You have one. Actually three, a stealth LZR. You got an LZR, lone bombs eyes shown like Christmas morning. First man portable laser rifle, pulse action 2021 to 23.

Heavy, clunky, but a trained operator could strike a dime credit in just inside a mile. They’ve improved considerably since then. I have the Tactical XT, such as your team would use, and the Peregrine XLR. Shut up, low and bomb, pointed at Ror. You’ve got a Peregrine. I do. Those suckers are accurate for five miles, more in the right hands. They just released from military use last year. How did you, low and bomb,

Lohenbaum paused, took a sip of beer. Don’t ask, don’t tell. All legal, Rorke assured him. Considerable finagling, but I’ve got the proper paperwork. Man, I’d love to see it. Of course. Really? What are the odds this shooter has something like that, Eve began? If he does, he could have taken the shot from God damn Queens. I’d really like a look. You just want to play with the toys, but fine.

Eva’s so funny, she’s like, what’s a investigation? Is this possible? Hi, I’m here. You just said a bunch of letters and you just got mad at us for using an acronym and now you’re saying a bunch of letters. What’s going on?

AJ (32:48.886)
You

AJ (32:59.242)
Right. Yeah. And yeah, they go into, you know, they go into his weapons room and it’s like, you know, it says, Loenbaum made a noise, like a man would if he saw a woman naked. And he’s like, it says, she gave Loenbaum a minute to wander and gawk.

Tara (33:13.484)
Yeah.

AJ (33:22.686)
And then she said to him, you and work can play with all the shoot it, stab it, stun it and blow the crap out of it toys later. So.

I just thought that whole, that whole interaction was really, and then he tells her like, you know, she says, who’s the best at this sort of reconstruction in the lab. And he’s like, it’s going to be dickhead. And he was like, come on, does it have to be.

Tara (33:36.355)
my god, it’s so good.

Tara (33:54.795)
Yes, Eva does. Sorry.

AJ (33:59.52)
So she’s gonna have to go to Dickhead and she’s not happy about it.

Tara (34:04.641)
Yeah, sorry Eve. So anyway then, after supper, Eve works and Rorke helps. And during a break, they look at redesign possibilities for the home office, which we talked about. And yeah, that is day one.

AJ (34:06.688)
Sorry, Eve.

AJ (34:25.414)
And the so it that had the effect that Char Charmaine Charmaine wanted because after seeing that and then she saw some of the other designs she was like yeah okay yeah I’m on board with these and I think she picked one to do and then later on he also looks at designs for their bedroom but we’ll get to that.

Tara (34:33.813)
Yeah, sure man, I think.

Tara (34:52.993)
Yeah.

AJ (34:53.684)
Hopefully this outline may not have this on here, Okay, so day two. Data from Morris, Peabody, McNabb, Barinski, Mira, Feeney, and Commander Jack Whitney. All available detectives from her squad go to work on the case two.

Tara (34:58.349)
That’s alright.

AJ (35:17.206)
Dallas settles on the second victim, the doctor, as the actual target, with the other two as camouflage.

And, you know, you’re going to have, we’re going to have people saying like, she knew right away. Like, yeah. You know, so there was a whole like process there where she decided on that.

Tara (35:35.211)
Yeah.

Tara (35:40.75)
I I think that her logic around it makes sense. Like once you start talking through it, like the options are like if there is a target in this group, it’s a person who no one knew was gonna be there, which is the least likely. Then you have the two people who are there regularly. One of them is there on a more regular schedule than the other one who is there often, but not on a set schedule. But also that other one is

AJ (35:57.512)
Right.

Tara (36:11.329)
basically a child. And you don’t want to think, and I’m sorry also that the Dr. Michelson, Michelson? He’s a doctor and doctors are not necessarily like an obvious target, but it’s easier to imagine like as an average person, because he’s also an average person that he would

AJ (36:12.957)
Right.

AJ (36:22.902)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (36:41.397)
most likely out of these people have someone holding a grudge against him, you know, because he’s a doctor and people love to blame everything on doctors. So, not everything, you know what I mean? Like there are things that are just, when you have someone to blame and it’s easy, there’s a lot more things out in the world that you could be blaming on someone who was a doctor, I guess. If we found out that

AJ (36:47.509)
Right.

AJ (36:54.324)
Right.

AJ (37:09.525)
Yeah.

Tara (37:10.881)
that other guy was a lawyer or something, or like a police officer, which obviously we would know, but you know, like these people who have like these higher risk jobs or higher responsibility jobs, it’s just more likely that they would have people who hold grudges. So I don’t think that it’s really off base for Eve to focus on him.

AJ (37:33.522)
No, and the other thing is she, you know, because Peabody kind of pushes back and says, I think it’s the it’s the girl because.

Tara (37:42.623)
And I think that that’s also like, there’s a lot of fairness to that. And I think Eve is, yeah, exactly. So.

AJ (37:46.133)
Mm-hmm.

And Eve gives her the, she’s like, okay, well then work that. Go to the college, talk to people, you know, see if you can come up with anything, you know? And Peabody does that and comes back and basically says there was, she couldn’t find anything that would, you know, that would make this girl target for anyone. So.

Tara (37:52.737)
Yeah.

Tara (38:11.841)
Well, I think it was, it’s a really important thing for us to see that kind of secondary investigating happening of people are all the time asking for, you know, like, why does Peabody do bullshit things when she doesn’t, she does real cop work. But also like, I think that it’s important to show that Eve is taking the time because while she,

AJ (38:20.574)
Right.

AJ (38:27.274)
Brent work.

Tara (38:41.203)
is very confident in her answer, she does not know that she’s right or wrong. She thinks she’s right. So then she’s not losing the opportunity to potentially find the next steps if Alyssa Wyman was the target. And there’s something to be said about Peabody’s thought about her being a target because remember in like,

AJ (38:46.974)
Right.

AJ (38:59.584)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (39:08.821)
either whatever the prologue or the first chapter, Willow is clearly chooses her because of she chooses her, you know, it’s like there’s something about it because of jealousy. And so you see that like there is no she’s not the target, but she was a chosen victim. And and that that says a lot about Willow, too. So it’s not wasted cop work.

AJ (39:20.82)
Right. Probably because of jealousy. Yeah.

AJ (39:32.583)
Exactly.

Tara (39:38.838)
It’s not Eve suddenly knowing the answer. It’s not Peabody doing useless work. Like it is, yeah, it’s, I think it’s good cop, mean, you know, I’m clearly an expert, but it’s good, it’s good cop work. And it’s not, it’s not you suddenly knowing the answer because I’ll also like these guys, they really, they didn’t hide it that much. Like.

AJ (39:51.508)
Yeah

AJ (40:07.598)
No. I mean, they did, but they didn’t. it, but you know, all, like you said, like all the steps that Eve took to get to that point made sense once she talked him out. You know, it’s not going to be somebody that goes, that just randomly decided to go there like the other guy, like the third guy. So it’s either, it’s either the first or the second. And it made a lot of sense to me that the others would be cover and that the

Tara (40:08.61)
Ha!

Tara (40:17.644)
Yeah.

Tara (40:26.133)
Exactly. Yeah.

Tara (40:35.905)
Because why wouldn’t you do cover? And honestly, like that was Reginald Mackie’s mistake by holding Willow back who she was like, I wanna do more, you know, and had that, obviously I’m glad, I don’t want people to be dead, but like had it been, had the Times Square scene been first, it would have been harder even though one of them was a cop.

AJ (40:36.342)
person in the middle. Right.

AJ (40:45.429)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (40:51.061)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (40:54.804)
Right.

Tara (41:03.819)
It would have been harder to zero in on the target with more victims.

AJ (41:09.482)
Well, that was the second set of victims.

Tara (41:12.129)
That’s what, yeah, that’s I said, But had that one been first and she had done that more, you know, it would have been harder to zero in on that. But instead they’re like, here, it’s right here in the middle, cover.

AJ (41:17.14)
Right.

AJ (41:23.382)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (41:29.269)
Yeah.

obvious

Tara (41:35.213)
obvious. Again, it’s not like so obvious or whatever, but it’s also not like Eve doesn’t make sense, I guess is what I’m saying.

AJ (41:36.873)
Hahaha

AJ (41:50.068)
Right. And you gotta, you gotta also like, even though Reginald Mackie was a, was a cop, we find out later, and had all this training, he’s not like a criminal mastermind and neither is Willow. So, you know, I mean, somebody that’s a criminal mastermind might’ve had a better plan for that. but they just didn’t.

Tara (42:10.035)
Exactly.

AJ (42:20.394)
They thought they did. They thought they had planned it out real well, they weren’t they weren’t prepared for Eve and Rorke also. So this says police locate the sniper’s nest hotel room thoroughly sanitized. What we completely glossed over there was they so even Rorke after having dinner.

Tara (42:20.748)
No.

They thought

AJ (42:46.294)
And after Loewenbaum left and they had dinner and all that, now he’s going to help her with her cupwork. And she said, you can work on looking for buildings because Loewenbaum basically, while they were, they had security footage and he was looking at the security footage and he was like, you can see kind of the trajectory of where the beam was coming in.

And so he said, it’s to the east, I think he said, and he said, it’s going to be high.

AJ (43:22.871)
He said higher than like it’s not going to be somebody in a tree. You know, because first of all, people in New York would see somebody climbing a tree with a gun.

Tara (43:31.595)
Yeah, was gonna say, yep, something you notice right away.

AJ (43:33.98)
Yeah. So he said, it’s going to be higher than that. It’s going to be higher up. So you’re looking at maybe a building and, you know, several floors up. Eve tells Roarke, like, look and see, you know, look into buildings to the east of that and, you know, blah, blah. And Roarke being Roarke, he’s decided that to be really thorough about it in the like

15, 20 minutes he has to work on this before he comes to Eve with his results. He’s going to write a computer program that basically takes, figures out the trajectory of that beam and then figures out the most likely building that that would have come from. Yeah. And it’s so funny because they talk about that.

Tara (44:26.379)
Yeah, it’s pretty fucking fabulous.

AJ (44:33.216)
program like all throughout the rest of book.

Tara (44:37.355)
Yeah. It’s impressive.

AJ (44:39.422)
You know, it’s impressive. And I, again, I have not looked at the, review the reviews, but I would be very surprised if at least one person didn’t mention like, like Roarke’s going to like in 10 minutes come up with a computer program to do that. Really? He’s not that.

Tara (44:57.825)
He probably already has something he’s built that’s very similar.

AJ (45:01.318)
Or, I bet you could right now go to chat GPT and say, give me a program for this. and that is chat GPT now. You know, you have to think about like what the, the, technology is going to be in another 30 years. You could very easily go to that and say, give it the parameters. Here’s, here’s what I want.

Tara (45:14.775)
Yeah, you’re probably right.

Right.

AJ (45:30.558)
I need the program. Sorry, we’re both. We’re both yawning a lot in this episode. No, you don’t have to be sorry, because I’m also yawning. And it’s not because we thought the book was boring. But anyway, so, yeah, I mean, it’s it’s it’s going to in 30 years from now, it’s going to get to the point where all you have to do is.

Tara (45:34.701)
Yeah. Sorry. I am. Yeah.

AJ (45:57.3)
you know, put in a few parameters into a computer or something like chat GPT and say like, here’s what I need the program to do. And it’s going to just come up with it. You know, here’s your program. Took it 10 minutes, you know.

Tara (46:14.797)
Right. I mean, I think you’re 100 % right about that.

And that’s fucking wild.

AJ (46:21.15)
Now, the thing that they’re saying about chat GPT, when you look at like, it’s going to put a lot of people out of business because, you know, it can write these programs. But what they’re saying now is then what the focus will be, will be on people who can put the information in to get the correct program. And that’s where the skill comes in.

putting in the information to get you the answer that you need from this, you know.

AJ (46:57.76)
program or whatever.

Tara (46:57.869)
Yeah, it’s more than just asking for it to be done. You have to also know the right, I think a lot of people, myself included, forget about the art of asking the question and knowing the right questions to ask and how to ask them. And when I say I think a lot of people, including me, I am very aware of the fact that I do not always know how to ask the question or

AJ (47:02.367)
Right.

AJ (47:12.17)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (47:27.211)
what the right question is. And so, yes, this is Roarke who just knows a lot about this kind of stuff, being able to, as I think you’re right, go in and be like, this is what I need, and knowing exactly how to ask for that, versus how someone who wouldn’t know, would just not even begin to be able to handle that, you know?

AJ (47:28.981)
Yeah.

AJ (47:44.789)
Right.

AJ (47:52.67)
Right. And it’s possible that he has his own program like ChatGPT that he uses. And, I don’t know. but that’s, that could be how that’s done. Yeah. and you know, if you’re really smart with ChatGPT, you, you, when you do your prompt, you say things like, ask me as many questions as you need to, to get to the correct answer.

Tara (48:02.285)
He probably does. He’s historic.

AJ (48:23.574)
to my problem or whatever. And then it’ll ask you the questions. Do you need to do this? Do you want it to do that? Can you, you I don’t know.

Tara (48:33.943)
See, you know how this stuff works. I don’t.

AJ (48:37.65)
I have, I don’t want to call myself a chat GPT expert, but I can do stuff on chat GPT.

Tara (48:43.903)
You

But I can do stuff on chat GPT. You can. You can. Can confirm.

AJ (48:52.038)
I can’t. Okay. So they’re looking for the building. I mean, his program didn’t narrow it down 100%, but it got pretty close. they’ve… Goddamn.

Tara (49:12.041)
you know what? It’s fine.

Listen, the weather here just makes it extra difficult. So… Ugh.

AJ (49:22.312)
Yeah.

So while Eve sends Peabody out to investigate the girl that was shot, Eve’s walking around and going to the most likely buildings. And she found one hotel and she goes in, she talks to this guy who knows her.

who realizes that she’s Lieutenant Eve Dallas from the movies. And so he is extremely helpful. She talks about how helpful he is, like 100%. Not only does he like tell her like verify, oh yeah, you know, that specific room was requested by this person. And it was a man.

And here’s what he looked like and he was with a young boy or a young girl. And they were, they were supposed to stay the night.

And they came back down after a few hours and said there was a family emergency and they can’t stay. Something like that. But anyway, he apparently had a really good eye. And he was able to, yeah, just well, you know, and it had to do with Roark’s program. And but yes, being able to have that guy, you know, and so she tells him, like, take me up to the room.

Tara (50:41.052)
Lucky break.

AJ (50:57.684)
He takes her up to the room and she goes over to the window and she’s like, yeah, yeah, actually, yes. And, but the room had been cleaned. And so she said, bring me the, the person that cleaned the room. She asked a bunch of questions because as you said, just a few minutes ago, Tara, it’s knowing how to ask the right questions and got to the point where the woman said, yeah, I think.

Tara (51:17.483)
knowing how to ask the right questions.

AJ (51:25.494)
that at a certain point whoever was in here was sitting by the window because when she vacuumed she noticed that there was indentations that looked like there was two chairs next to the window. And she said that there was indentations that looked like it might have been done by a tripod.

Tara (51:49.079)
Dun dun dun.

AJ (51:49.17)
And Eve’s like, yeah, ding, ding, ding. So, so she right away calls Lo and Bomb and she’s like, drop everything that you’re doing and come down to this, hotel, come to this room. I need your console right, right now, right this very now. And he does that and he comes in and she’s like, I think this is the place. And he goes over to the window and he looks at it and he’s like, yeah, yep. This is it.

Tara (52:16.717)
100 % place.

AJ (52:17.846)
100 % the place.

So,

AJ (52:28.35)
So yeah, so Lowenbaum confirms the location and the weapon. Dallas has a feeling the snipers, trainer and apprentice are related and aren’t finished.

so it says next in a nest in a flop house, the apprentice acquires the target and asks for a total of six kills, but the trainer says only four. Please do the apprentice began to do the job. and this is in Times Square. We, we, the point of view switches to the police officer that was killed young guy who’s saying like,

Tara (52:43.819)
Yeah.

AJ (53:11.644)
He really likes he was just recently transferred to Times Square and he loves it because so many people so many things going on. He loves his job, which makes it even more horrible when he you know, dies. They they see a woman go down first, a woman that had been like window shopping. She looked like a tourist and she goes down first and then a kid goes down.

Tara (53:24.237)
I know.

AJ (53:40.508)
And then he realizes that something bad’s happening, so he tells everybody to take cover. And then he goes and covers the kid, so the kid doesn’t get shot again, and he ends up getting shot himself. And actually, the apprentice shoots five people and tells her trainer that was a compromise.

Tara (54:02.487)
Yes, and.

Yes, because they’re trying to compromise and it’s not a compromise she wants.

AJ (54:13.116)
Right, well he tells her just four. She wanted six, yeah.

Tara (54:16.107)
Yeah, she’s like, no, she wanted six.

AJ (54:19.678)
Yeah. So, yeah, the first victim was Fern Addison, an elderly tourist, second victim, 17 year old Nathaniel Foster Jarvitz was hit mid back and flipped off his airboard. Third victim officer Kevin Russo is hit in the forehead as he tries to shield the second victim. Dallas thinks he was the target because he had a routine on this beat. So again,

you know, she is right away like who is the one that was routinely there that they would have been looking for. And he’s the only one, you know, because the other the lady was a tourist, Nathaniel Foster was there. He was celebrating his birthday, I think they were there to do something specific, he and his friends or whatever. For victim David Chang. Yeah, go ahead.

Tara (54:53.389)
Which makes sense.

Tara (55:12.193)
Yeah, well.

Yeah, no, I can’t remember was where they just literally just moving through the space. Were they the ones who were just moving through the space? So they really weren’t even there to do anything. They just happened to be literally in the wrong place at the wrong time.

AJ (55:23.476)
Yeah. Yeah, they were just, they were just riding their airboards.

AJ (55:33.492)
Right, Yeah, and so the apprentice says five was a compromise and it says the trainer lowered the scope aimed stern disapproval but pride shown through it. So he’s a dick also, let’s be honest. More injuries from falling bodies and panic people. So yeah, go ahead, sorry.

Tara (55:52.309)
If he sucks, like.

Tara (55:58.062)
I just I just wanted like I mean this was gonna come up at some point anyway I The the way that he was so easily willing to just be like yeah like once you learn at the end about how like Willow kind of You know was the catalyst for all of it and how he was like yeah, that sounds great. Let’s just kill everyone Fuck the fact that I was a police officer for but you know like

AJ (56:22.644)
Yeah.

Tara (56:27.666)
Ugh. Just makes me mad.

AJ (56:30.1)
Well, yeah, I mean, it does say that after his wife died, then he started taking drugs and drinking a lot. And that does impair your, you know, but Loewenbaum did say that he was starting to go off the deep end after his wife died or even before really.

Tara (56:41.398)
It does.

Tara (56:54.444)
Ahem.

AJ (56:56.684)
So hang on a sec.

AJ (57:04.541)
Mmm.

AJ (57:15.35)
So.

AJ (57:22.134)
Sorry, hang on a sec.

Tara (57:23.853)
That’s okay.

AJ (57:46.669)
I’m trying to get to the part where…

Eve Tells Low and Bone.

AJ (58:00.822)
Because this outline is very sparse on details. It’s extremely sparse on details.

Tara (58:07.021)
I was gonna say that.

Tara (58:18.519)
I mean, I did not write it, so I can’t judge.

AJ (58:24.66)
Right.

AJ (58:35.414)
Okay. So Eve hooks up the the hotel clerk.

with Yancy so together they come up with the sketches and Yancy was telling Eve like he’s Yancy or the guy’s name was Henry is that his last name

Tara (59:06.047)
Yes, Henry. But he was a really cool dude,

AJ (59:12.404)
Yeah, that’s why I was gonna, I was like, you know, he needs to be recognized.

Tara (59:18.548)
Ahem.

AJ (59:19.498)
Henry Whipple.

Tara (59:21.623)
Good name.

AJ (59:22.682)
is yeah he he needs he needs to be recognized because he did an outstanding job gave them everything they could possibly want and he had a very detailed memory of what the two people look like

And so Yancey came up with some really, you know, detailed sketches. And when Eve goes over there, she’s looking at the sketches and she’s like, yeah, these two are definitely related. look like they could be related. And the sketches are so good that Eve is like, you know, run those through the whatever.

program they have that searches for ID photos from Yancy’s sketches. And Yancy is like, I don’t think, you know, that he’s saying like, well, we got a hit already. I don’t think it’s, I didn’t think it was going to, and then says he trailed off as the ID image popped on screen, then let out a deep breath and said, hot, fuck Dallas.

Eyes on the ID shot Eve gripped Yancey’s arm hard. Hold it down, she murmured. He’s a cop, Yancey said under his breath. He’s a goddamn cop. And says Reginald Mackie, age 54, retired after 20 years on the NYPSD, the last 11 of them in tactical. Prior to joining the force, he’d been a US Army, a weapons expert. He’d been low in bombs. So Eve’s like…

realizing that she’s going to have that hard job of breaking that to low and bomb, unfortunately. So she says she goes through the bullpen and she’s like, she wants to run, but she can’t because running is going to signal people that something really hot happened in the case.

Tara (01:01:28.589)
I was gonna say that like, again, I’ve only read this once. I had forgotten that, like I knew that they figured out who it was early on. I hadn’t realized how early and I had forgotten that it was like she was just there with Yancey and that extra layer of

AJ (01:01:45.384)
Yeah, this is pretty early.

Tara (01:01:58.872)
how to handle that, you know? Like, everyone knows what Eve is working on, you know? And if she suddenly starts sprinting through Cop Central, they’re gonna know, they’re gonna, I mean, like, and I just think it was very fascinating to think about how she handled that situation.

AJ (01:02:00.927)
Right.

AJ (01:02:11.848)
Right, because

AJ (01:02:19.37)
Yeah, because she, they had been, they’d said several times already that like, just because of the shots themselves, how far away and how accurate they were, even Loewenbaum was saying, this is a, this is a pro. This is, this is going to be somebody with either police training or military training. So, but to save that as kind of an abstract concept.

of what might, what it might be, but then is different than having it confirmed that it in fact is a police officer. And not only any police officer, it was a police officer who was under Loewenbaum’s command. It’s like, that’s pretty devastating. I mean, it’s always devastating when it’s a police officer, but.

Tara (01:03:13.237)
Right, but like this person she’s already brought into this investigation. mean like, and now I’m gonna give you an update and you’re not gonna like it.

AJ (01:03:23.198)
Right. So anyway, so she’s contacting everybody. She contacts Feeny and says, I need you Rorke McNabb if you can spare him. And it says she didn’t have to explain, not to Feeny. He only nodded. Give us 10. Because Feeny at this point knows too, just because of her face, you know.

Tara (01:03:46.104)
yeah.

AJ (01:03:49.278)
She stepped into her own bullpen. Whatever you’re doing, stop. I want everyone who isn’t about to close the case of the decade to prep for a full briefing and up. Yancey hit Peabody pushed to her feet. How sure are we? I’m going with a hundred on that. Loewebombs on his way. The commander is booking a conference room. We roll there as soon as it’s ready and we keep this right here for now.

And then Baxter says, fuck me, it’s a cop.

Tara (01:04:21.079)
Yeah, and also just like the progression of them like going, you know, like this is so much harder. I don’t know. I think that like their reactions, even though it was very simple, like it wasn’t a big dramatic moment, but like everyone got it. And Baxter saying it’s a cop. It’s like, this is maybe like…

AJ (01:04:44.981)
Right.

Tara (01:04:50.015)
It’s already such a shitty shitty murder case. And then like that extra layer, everyone I think feels just like an extra level of anxiety and grief if it’s a cop, you know, so.

AJ (01:05:03.766)
Right. Yeah. And then of course, Lo and Bom, she goes into her office and she tells Peabody all the details. And then there’s a knock on the door and it’s Lo and Bom. And as soon as he comes in and closes the door, she says, Lo and Bom, I need everything you can tell me on Reginald Mackie. And he says, what? No, come on,

And deliberately she shut the door behind him. You knew he was off. You’d have seen it. Think back. And Loewenbaum’s like, well, Christ, listen, Mack was round, wound tight, but a lot of tacticals are. He was a good, solid cop. I worked with him for a dozen years. like, yeah, I can, you know, I feel for Loewenbaum in this moment because like, it’s, that’s gotta be tough to learn that somebody that you

Tara (01:05:57.088)
Ugh, so hard.

AJ (01:06:02.59)
worked with and that you respected or, you know, has done is basically an LDSK. You know?

Tara (01:06:11.755)
Yeah, it’s like, you’re like, actually didn’t want to know one personally. Great.

AJ (01:06:17.352)
Right. So.

AJ (01:06:28.18)
So Mackie is taking up people he blames for the 2059 death of his new wife, Suzanne, who was pregnant when she ran into the street and was killed by a car. Later information shows that her death was no fault of anyone but Suzanne, but Mackie is deeply disturbed and spreads the blame widely. So yeah, that’s one thing Loewenbaum told her, like he was really, he was really…

broken up after his wife died and that Loewenbaum tried to contact him a few times after he retired and the guy wasn’t interested and told her all about how the woman died.

So yeah, that’s how they figure all of that out, that he’s going after all of these people.

Tara (01:07:26.753)
Which is good because holy hell that’s a list.

AJ (01:07:30.59)
Yeah. Mackie has now murdered the obstetrician, Michelson, second victim at the ice rink, and the responding officer, Russo, third victim at Times Square. The second sniper must be his daughter, Willow Mackie, age 15. Dallas believes the teenagers killed in the sniper attacks were chosen by her. As a serial killer, they were her type. Quote, unquote.

So they try to think of, they, she right away looks at his ex-wife. So his ex-wife has remarried. They have a son. So right away Eve wants to put them in protective custody because they figure they’re probably on the list. They, she also puts into protective custody,

Tara (01:08:22.253)
there. Yeah.

AJ (01:08:27.528)
Marta Beck, who is the obstetrician’s office manager. So that makes a lot of sense. NYPSD’s top priority is to locate Mackie broken and twisted and take him down. They also work to identify and protect the Mackie’s other targets, both jointly related to the accident and willow on her own.

Tara (01:08:53.719)
Yes, because they go to the house and they find, they find it’s a lot missing.

AJ (01:08:57.782)
Yeah, yeah, this. Yeah, yeah, we are skipping over a lot, but maybe that’s better because we’re both really tired and we keep yawning. So, but.

Tara (01:09:08.717)
But yeah, but they go to the house and they find Willow’s list. Well, they find they find the list on her brother’s computer.

AJ (01:09:18.068)
Right. And that’s something that Eve came up with because they were looking through the house and they weren’t, they didn’t see anything on her computer. And they were talking about it. Like not all kids keep a diary or whatever. And Roarke asks Eve, did you keep a diary? And she’s like, absolutely not because they were not going to see anything that I was thinking. And he said, did you keep anything?

Tara (01:09:40.522)
You

AJ (01:09:46.822)
And she said she kept a calendar. She kept a calendar of days of how many days before she would turn 18 and be, you know, released essentially and be on her own. And she said.

Tara (01:09:59.126)
And then she remembered that she saved things, like very specific things that she wanted to say or like remember on the other kids’ computers. I was assuming she was talking about her life when she lived with Trudy Lombard.

AJ (01:10:11.264)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (01:10:21.294)
I think she just meant in the system in general.

Tara (01:10:24.557)
But probably in general, but I don’t know. was like, I was like. So that’s probably one of the times at least, you know.

AJ (01:10:33.6)
Yeah. She said she kept a calendar always of how many days, like weeks, months, hours she had before she could be freed from the system. Right? Yeah. So that’s how they knew, like Eve was like, it’s gotta be on the brother’s computer. And so Rork goes into the brother’s room and starts poking into the computer to try to find something.

Tara (01:10:46.133)
and can’t blame her.

AJ (01:11:03.252)
And while he’s doing that, Eve goes back into Willow Mackey’s room and she’s looking around and she’s looking at the dresser. She’s looking through the dresser, can’t find anything. And I think it doesn’t say this in the book, I don’t think, but you know, I mean, just being partners with Peabody has taught her about, you know, how people that build things like Peabody’s father often put hidey holes and…

places so she knows what to look for now. And she managed to find a like a hidden drawer in that dresser that was specifically made to keep guns in.

Tara (01:11:33.493)
How hidey holes?

Tara (01:11:52.878)
which is like real good. Like she did real good finding that.

AJ (01:11:59.05)
Well, like I said, mean, she, I mean, I think the first book that we had that she found anything like that was a glory. Remember? They go to his apartment and Peabody finds…

Tara (01:12:11.344)
yeah, when Peabody finds the hiding hole.

AJ (01:12:16.583)
And she tells Eve like this, father makes furniture and he often will, you know, create little storage, little hidden storage compartments in the furniture that he makes. And then just recently it happened in Brotherhood. Remember they found that cabinet in the bathroom of the one guy. His Peabody had already told her like about that kind of stuff. So Eve specifically went looking for that.

Tara (01:12:35.543)
Yeah, that’s right.

AJ (01:12:45.906)
So no surprise that she would look for something like that here. Eve learns as she goes.

Tara (01:12:51.671)
Good job, Eve.

Tara (01:12:56.087)
She does.

AJ (01:12:57.862)
And, you know, I’m waiting for the person and we review the reviews to say like, how did Eve even know? If you listen to this episode, you know how she knows. Okay.

Tara (01:13:05.933)
She did, because she’s a smart person. Also, just listen to our episodes, we’ll tell you.

AJ (01:13:14.164)
Yeah. it’s, it’s often not so frivolous when Peabody talks about shit like making furniture and crocheting, but sometimes that comes in handy in a case. So give Peabody a break for that.

Tara (01:13:23.606)
Right?

Tara (01:13:29.193)
Like see after all that, Peabody, not everything you say is fucking weird.

AJ (01:13:33.822)
Right?

Dallas then leaks information to Nadine first in her new swank digs and wants to warn unidentified targets to break a Mackey with incessant media reminders of Suzanne.

AJ (01:13:57.385)
Okay.

Tara (01:13:59.502)
OK. was like, OK. Yes, that she does. She does. I feel like there was like a big chunk missing there.

AJ (01:14:02.294)
Hahaha

Yes.

AJ (01:14:09.65)
Yeah, there’s a big, there’s lots of big chunks missing on this.

Tara (01:14:12.717)
Yeah, and here’s the thing is that that’s fine. Also these books are just long enough that like we’re also not going to remember all the big chunks because we read them over the course of a week or two preparing for this and also life is happening around us. So we’re trying here.

AJ (01:14:24.298)
Right.

AJ (01:14:32.348)
Yeah, life is happening. Like, there’s a lot of life happening.

Tara (01:14:37.282)
fucking wish it wouldn’t.

AJ (01:14:39.103)
Right?

let’s see. So where are we? okay. So yeah. So the Mackie’s in their backup loft department, see the media coverage and go on to plan B.

data from interviews shows that Willow is a psychopath trained by an expert in the science of killing and that Mackie is sick in mind and addicted to funk. What?

Tara (01:15:10.389)
And shocking. I said shocking.

AJ (01:15:16.596)
Yeah, shocking. Somebody who could do that is a psychopath.

And maybe that’s what the woman was that I was telling you about the interview. I think maybe she was a psychopath.

Tara (01:15:29.143)
Maybe she was.

AJ (01:15:31.454)
I have to say, I have to, I don’t know either. Psychopaths, I don’t know. It seems like she was a little bit more than a sociopath. No, it isn’t.

Tara (01:15:32.779)
I don’t know the difference.

Tara (01:15:41.921)
So, okay, it’s not our job to know the difference. We can ask Google, of course, but, or chat GPT.

AJ (01:15:47.55)
We could. Yeah. So.

At about 2100 hours, 9pm, EDD identifies a townhouse that has been rented by Mackie under a fake name, and they track down false ID for both Mackie’s. Police mobilized to the townhouse. Mackie turned it into a fortress for a last stand, barricades, deflectors, security cameras, outside and in, and counterfeit imaging.

AJ (01:16:30.272)
I just feel like there’s a lot. We’re skipping over a shit ton of stuff.

Tara (01:16:32.705)
Yeah, I was like, I feel like there was a big chunk there too.

Tara (01:16:40.589)
Cause they use, they use like the heat sensor stuff. I just forget what that’s.

AJ (01:16:45.458)
Yeah, they do.

AJ (01:16:50.816)
They do use the heat sensors.

Tara (01:16:54.221)
so they know that he’s not, that he’s alone.

AJ (01:16:59.338)
Right.

AJ (01:17:06.132)
I’m just trying to… is that…

AJ (01:17:12.042)
I’m just trying to remember…

AJ (01:17:18.899)
If this was

AJ (01:17:30.282)
Hang on.

AJ (01:17:41.8)
I was trying to figure out if this was when they went to the to the other place next door.

Tara (01:17:53.58)
You mean the neighbors?

AJ (01:18:00.202)
Yeah.

Tara (01:18:01.249)
Yes.

AJ (01:18:02.728)
Okay, yeah. So yeah, this is this is the op where they because that was one of my favorite parts of the book.

Tara (01:18:10.288)
my God, when they’re like talking to those guys in the, in their apartment.

AJ (01:18:13.12)
Well, when they go up there, first of all, and they’re just like, we’re gonna, hopefully they’re gonna open the door. We’re just gonna like act like we’re supposed to be there. We’re just gonna barge in, which they did. was like, they were like, hey, they knew the people’s names because they looked up the owners of the condo, Philippe and somebody else.

Tara (01:18:27.437)
which they did, it’s great.

Tara (01:18:36.843)
Yeah.

Ugh, what was her name?

Tara (01:18:45.079)
But yes.

AJ (01:18:45.17)
It’s saying, Hey, Philippe, with a blast of a smile, Eve moved forward, Roark closed the door at their backs. And he goes, wait, just a, there’s trouble next door. I’m Lieutenant Dallas, NYPSD, and this is my consultant. I need you to call Jan. Just call her from wherever she is. And he’s like, but I want to know, Philippe, Roark says in a smooth, easy tone, the quicker you follow the Lieutenant’s instructions, the quicker we’ll explain. How’s your soundproofing?

are, well, we’re working on it. Why? I see you’re doing some renovations where it continued in that same conversational tone. Handy.

Tara (01:19:24.237)
It is, it is very handy.

AJ (01:19:25.654)
Yeah. And so he calls Jan, he says, Jan, come down here. And she’s like, I’m in the middle of something. And he’s like, come on, Jan. so she comes down and she’s like, sorry, I didn’t know there was anyone here. And he says, they’re the cops. And Eve tells them, you know, let’s take this back there. Eve gestured, have you got a music system? How about how you?

How about you put on some music like you would when friends come over. There’s trouble next door. You share a wall. You’re soundproofing Ziffy. Put on some music. We’ll go in the back and I’ll tell you what’s going on.” And they have a little dog, you know, and it’s like, you know, wagging its tail. and so, you know, Jan’s like, okay, well, let’s go back to the lounge. You won’t believe how great it looks now.

Way to go, Jan, for…

Tara (01:20:21.69)
I just love how they play into it. They are great. they’re good ones.

AJ (01:20:27.038)
Yeah. And this is Eve gave her a nod of approval. Can’t wait to see it. Put on some tunes Phil. Let’s crack that wine. I don’t know how. And then she says, I don’t know how much they can hear over there.

that’s that was Jan talking. She’s like, we can sort of hear them their screen noises and on a third floor, some thumping around. That’s where our workshop is. So we spend a lot of time up there. But yeah, so, you know, Eve, you know,

AJ (01:21:04.96)
tells them everything that’s going on is like, you know, we’re going to go up to your master bedroom and go through the wall and Jan’s like, I just, did she just paint it or she just been? Yeah. So.

Tara (01:21:15.649)
I just did this wall. Her feelings about the wall is so precious.

AJ (01:21:25.544)
You know, and then Roarke has a laser cutter or something like that. And they’re like, I don’t know, you know, cutting into the wall and Roarke’s like, like this laser cutter, you can have it when I’m done. And they’re like, okay. Right. So.

Tara (01:21:38.925)
It’s just it’s yours. Just take it. It’s all yours. okay Sure, thanks

AJ (01:21:50.762)
So yeah.

AJ (01:21:55.112)
And I thought here’s the best part. Eve’s like, we need to see the second floor. You’re just talking, taking your friends upstairs, showing them the work. Okay. And Phil says, Jan and Jan says, we’re going to be okay, Phil. I’m not letting anything happen to you. So yeah, we’re going to be okay. So let’s get married. You said what?

I love you, you love me, we adopted a dog together, we’re building a home together, and I’m taking this as a sign, let’s get married. So, and of course.

Tara (01:22:31.991)
But Roarke and Eve just kind of be in there while they get engaged. No big deal. These people we do not fucking know. They don’t recognize Eve and Roarke. So they literally do not know them. And these random people just throwing themselves in your house and deciding to get married. You you decide to get married with them right there. Sure.

AJ (01:22:34.87)
Right.

AJ (01:22:42.655)
Right?

AJ (01:22:47.03)
hahahaha

Right? Yeah. And Eve’s like, congratulations, but maybe we could hold off on the wine and applause until after we’ve taken the killer next door into police custody and Phil’s like, sorry, this is the strangest, scariest night of my life. And it made me realize I want to spend the rest of my life with you. And he’s like, sweet, kudos, let’s move. Eve, that’s the…

Tara (01:22:58.253)
You

Tara (01:23:17.613)
It’s so great. It’s yeah, it’s so Eve and also like they are never and you know what? They probably like the next day saw stuff on the news were like, wait, hold on. That’s Eve Dallas. That’s not just a cop.

AJ (01:23:30.069)
Right?

AJ (01:23:34.932)
But you know, I mean, what a story to have to tell your kids later. Yeah.

Tara (01:23:38.315)
What a story, right? At their wedding, they’re gonna be telling the story about the night they got engaged. At least they better. Like, I feel like that’s how you do it, you know?

AJ (01:23:42.607)
hahahahah

AJ (01:23:48.534)
Yeah, absolutely. So after a short battle, Mackie is taken into custody. He’s under guard in a hospital. The house contains an arsenal’s worth of weapons, but Willow is not there. And neither is the laser rifle. Even Roarke go home and get a few hours of sleep. So now we’re on to day three.

Tara (01:24:11.735)
Which is nice, it’s nice to see them getting a few hours of sleep.

AJ (01:24:17.044)
Yeah, it’s always nice to see them getting some sleep.

AJ (01:34:46.556)
Anyway, shall we go on to day three?

Tara (01:34:47.967)
you ready for day three?

AJ (01:51:01.718)
And yeah, you know what? I also thought that a lot of this was happening really soon, really quickly, because Madison Square.

AJ (01:51:20.886)
shoot. That’s chapter 14.

Tara (01:51:26.923)
Yeah, this moves real fucking fast.

AJ (01:51:28.63)
So I like, all of this is, yeah, this moved really fast. All of these happen within the first 14, and then we have another, like, not 10 chapters, but eight chapters. So, like, what the fuck did we do for eight chapters?

Now I’m starting to sound like one of those people that we don’t like on Review the Reviews. Like everything happened in the first 14 chapters and then it was eight chapters of nothing.

Tara (01:51:55.341)
I mean.

Tara (01:52:01.153)
No, there’s plenty. Don’t worry. Don’t worry.

AJ (01:52:02.587)
hahahaha

So all right.

Tara (01:52:06.775)
Where are we? Okay, so. Day three. Potentially Saturday, January 29th, question mark. So dispatch awakens even Roarke at around 2 a.m. because there are multiple victims at Madison Square Garden where Mavis had a concert that night. Roarke says Somerset was there with Ivana and they find him outside helping medics tend the wounded. There.

AJ (01:52:35.72)
sorry, I’m already breaking in.

It just, you know, the concern, not just Roarke’s concern, because obviously he’s concerned. Because he says, we had tickets. And she says, what? Tickets to this thing? And he says, I gave them to Somerset. He moves so fast, efficiently, tossing E for coke, grabbing his own, but his eyes, she saw now that his eyes were stricken. And she had just had a dream.

That’s one thing that we glossed over. She just had a dream where she was talking to Willow Mackey and Willow Mackey was exactly, exactly. So when they’re driving to Madison Square, that’s all Eve is thinking about. And this was one of the times, Tara, that we talked about when we did the episode about Eve never crying.

Tara (01:53:16.619)
Willow and saying, I’m going to hurt everyone you love. Yeah.

AJ (01:53:40.052)
Right? Because there’s a point where…

after they’re there for a while and Roarke goes to see where Eve is and he sees Eve coming from where he thinks is backstage and sees that she has tears in her eyes or sees that her eyes are red probably from crying. And this is where it all starts because she starts right away thinking about that everyone you care about she thought again, snapping Mavis’s name into her link.

while they rush down the stairs. And of course, she can’t get a of Mavis. She can’t get a hold of Somerset because she calls them both repeatedly. And neither one is answering their their link. And she’s like, fuck, fuck, fuck. They’re all right. They’re both fine. She wanted to try Leonardo, but realized if he’d stayed home with the baby, she’d just terrify him. Yeah, so.

Tara (01:54:26.199)
just awful to think about.

AJ (01:54:43.058)
the fact that she was just, you know, worried sick about both of them. Yeah, and I’m not surprised that she went backstage to Mavis and probably cried. Wept. Even though she doesn’t ever do that.

Tara (01:54:53.291)
Right, of course she did.

Tara (01:54:59.893)
No, she doesn’t cry. She’s unfeeling, obviously.

gotta hate people. So anyway, so there are 18 dead and 84 injured. Among the dead is Jonah Rosting, a lawyer whom Mackie had consulted after Susan was killed. Willow shot Rosting first, then 17 others for fun. Ugh.

AJ (01:55:08.662)
Ha

AJ (01:55:29.48)
Okay, that’s very fun. Sure.

Tara (01:55:34.41)
Everyone backstage is safe, including Mavis, Leonardo, Trina, Nadine, and Somerset’s friend Ivana. And then Baxter and other police are following Willow’s track from Madison Square Garden. After discussing strategy with Mira, Rio, and Lone Bomb, Dallas and Peabody. What an interesting group of people to be like, I got to strategize with. Like, it’s an interesting.

AJ (01:55:53.878)
You

AJ (01:55:58.262)
Well, yeah, but also we missed another very, very crucial thing that happens.

Tara (01:56:07.693)
Oh my god, are you about to talk about the fight with, not the fight, the disagreement with Somerset and Roarke? Oh, I was. What were you gonna talk about? Oh, um, yeah, we meet Jake! We meet Jake, and he’s great. He’s fucking great. No wonder we love Jake. Okay, let’s… Okay.

AJ (01:56:15.144)
No, I wasn’t even going to talk about that, but yes. Okay. You talk about it. We meet Jake.

Wasn’t even mentioned here.

AJ (01:56:31.314)
And what I love about that, wait a minute, what I love about it is that Eve comes up and she sees Nadine, she’s like, Nadine, are you okay? And Nadine’s like, yeah, I’m fine, blah, blah. And she noticed that Nadine was sitting with this guy, but she’s Eve, so she does. And so she looks over at him and says, who are you? And he like looks at her and looks at Nadine, and Nadine’s like, told you. So Nadine already told him that she’s not gonna recognize who you are. And he’s like,

Tara (01:56:55.437)
It’s…

Tara (01:56:59.787)
No. Yeah, sorry, Jake, not you actually, not everyone recognizes you.

AJ (01:57:00.18)
Can’t be, everybody recognizes me. It’s not, yeah. So, yeah. Nadine’s like, told you, told you. She didn’t know who you are. And he’s already calling her Lois and all of that, so.

Tara (01:57:10.423)
So, sorry bud.

Tara (01:57:19.432)
so good.

Tara (01:57:26.321)
That’s so cute. that’s right. Look at our first jigs.

AJ (01:57:29.078)
How fucking dare they not mention in this timeline my absolute favorite character after, you know, Brian Kelly.

Tara (01:57:41.293)
What were they thinking? What were they thinking?

AJ (01:57:43.242)
What were they thinking?

AJ (01:57:48.864)
So, sorry, go ahead.

Tara (01:57:50.987)
No, what I was going to say about Somerset is…

Obviously we get Somerset helping out, being all helpful and all that, which we love.

AJ (01:58:06.506)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (01:58:10.439)
Roarke, you know, when everything’s kind of like wrapping up, Roarke is like, you need to go home and, whatever, because Eve is like, well, I need to talk to him. And then Roarke is mad at Eve because she wants to talk to Somerset. And I just want to say

AJ (01:58:24.164)
Hahaha

Tara (01:58:26.263)
think you know where this is going. Even Somerset half this work. Just step back. I know you love them both dearly.

AJ (01:58:32.862)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tara (01:58:37.047)
how they live in this house with all of those fucking personalities. There are three, three of the most bullheaded, my way or the highway, ridiculously stubborn human beings living in that house. How do they live there in the same place? First of all, how does anyone live in that house with works ego? Second, it’s a big house. I get it. I get it. It’s a really big house.

AJ (01:58:42.452)
Right?

AJ (01:58:52.074)
Yes. Yep.

AJ (01:59:01.206)
You

AJ (01:59:04.662)
There’s lots of rooms.

Tara (01:59:06.103)
But

AJ (01:59:14.656)
Good, okay, that’s good.

AJ (01:59:21.418)
Chill, chill dude.

Tara (01:59:34.786)
You know, and he didn’t give Somerset the space to be like, I’m good, you know? And so I feel like the part where Somerset was just literally about to keel over from exhaustion, I think part of that came from just like, he was going to do that anyway, whether Eve talked to him or not. He’s fucking tired. Like it wasn’t Eve talking to him that suddenly made a big difference, you know? And I’m sorry, Roarke.

AJ (01:59:41.482)
Right.

AJ (01:59:54.984)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (02:00:03.565)
And I feel like Somerset would say this, if you were in Somerset shoes, if you had this skill set, you’d be doing the same thing. So I just I love I work loves his people so much. I respect it. I was just like, I was like, if I were physically in that space and brave enough, I would have been like, hey, work, let’s let the two of them do this over here. You can love them from over here. Because.

AJ (02:00:10.965)
Right.

AJ (02:00:26.198)
Love them from afar, just for tonight.

Tara (02:00:31.745)
Because you are not helping the situation. Your love is great. I’m so glad you love your people. You are not helping. But of course, it’s really cool to be reading that scene right after reading Bonded and having that.

AJ (02:00:38.708)
Right. Yeah, you’re not helping anything.

AJ (02:00:47.282)
Yeah. Yeah. Especially when Somerset was saying like he went outside and he was going to do something and it just, it just, it just hit him. Like, he had a flashback essentially to the urban wars and he, couldn’t, he couldn’t do anything. He was just frozen. the other thing I loved about this, which shows you that again,

Tara (02:01:01.068)
Yeah.

Tara (02:01:08.525)
Yeah, I know.

AJ (02:01:15.484)
Eve has a heart, though she doesn’t. Because people, not necessarily, there are a lot of people, you and I, and like I said, the 10 % of very intelligent people that follow us on Facebook. 10 % of what I said was the 10 % of people who are the most intelligent in the population follow us on Facebook.

Tara (02:01:18.061)
you

Tara (02:01:38.263)
Yes.

That’s right.

AJ (02:01:41.302)
That doesn’t mean that you’re not one listener if you’re listening to this and you’re not on Facebook. You’re just part of the 10 % that hasn’t gone to Facebook yet or isn’t on Facebook.

Tara (02:01:44.597)
if you’re not in the Facebook group. But just know.

Tara (02:01:51.157)
And if you were on Facebook, you would just get to be with those people who we are.

AJ (02:01:54.352)
Yeah, you would just follow us and we would, you know, so we’re not saying you’re not part of the 10 % most, Right. Anyway, because Dickhead was also there and we know how he feels about Dickhead. Right. And this says she saw Roarke and Feeney going inside with Baranski limping behind them.

Tara (02:01:59.713)
But also I have lot of respect because fuck Facebook.

You

Tara (02:02:10.347)
Yes.

Yeah.

AJ (02:02:21.974)
And she grabs, she’s been talking to Somerset. She grabs Somerset, see that guy? The one with the head like an egg limping? Yes. When you have time, look him over. He got banged up. He’ll be with Roarke and Feeney. I’ll do what I can.

So, if she didn’t give a fuck about Dickie Baranski because he’s just a pain in the ass that she works with, she wouldn’t have… it would have been like, he’s fine.

Tara (02:02:51.095)
Alright, go figure it out. He’s a fucking adult.

AJ (02:02:53.588)
But the fact that she specifically said to Somerset, can you find that guy and see if he’s okay? Yeah. Tells you that even Burenski, even Dick Burenski managed to, you know, worm his way into Eve’s heart, which is bigger than you would think, because if it can fit Dick Burenski, by that time it’s fit so many people and it’s going to fit more.

Tara (02:03:00.545)
Make sure it’s okay. She’s good.

AJ (02:03:22.998)
That’s all I’m

Tara (02:03:24.621)
She’s much nicer than the rest of the world seems to think she is. She even cares about Dicky.

AJ (02:03:29.802)
Exactly. And these are moments where I think people just, they read it and they don’t internalize it. And I probably didn’t either when I first read it. But when I read it again, I was like, she really likes him.

Tara (02:03:45.223)
Like is a strong word.

AJ (02:03:46.568)
Hahaha!

Tara (02:03:50.414)
She, listen, she does not wish ill will upon him. definitely, right, she recognizes that he is a person and at this moment he needs maybe just a little bit of medical attention. And you know, she…

AJ (02:03:56.313)
She likes him. She didn’t like him like him, but she likes him.

AJ (02:04:15.668)
Right, but a lot of people in this scene need medical attention, but he’s the one that she specifically said to Somerset.

Tara (02:04:19.871)
Right.

And this is right. it’s it’s one of even though she doesn’t like like him, this is one of her people.

AJ (02:04:29.82)
Exactly. If he’s one of her people, that’s probably the best way to say it. So he gets, he gets the Somerset treatment, or maybe it was a punishment for Dickie Berenstie to stick Somerset on him. don’t know.

Tara (02:04:33.772)
Yeah.

Tara (02:04:42.509)
Right? I don’t know, maybe it’s a punishment for each of them. Trying to punish both of them. She’s like, ah, two of my least favorite people I have to deal with. Right? There it is. She figured it out. Oh, congratulations, Eve.

AJ (02:04:53.384)
I found the perfect way to punish both of them at the same time.

Hahaha

Tara (02:05:04.077)
So happy for you. Okay, all right. Let’s go back to day three. Let’s see. Yeah, so she was discussing strategy with her interesting array of pals. So then she and Peabody interview Mackie and he rants and shakes and weasels but confesses to conspiracy to murder and accessory to murder.

AJ (02:05:06.975)
Alright.

AJ (02:05:16.042)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (02:05:34.113)
then gives him details on where Willa might be. And so they, with the conspiring with Rio specifically, they talk to him and basically say, if you give us information on where.

Or how, you know, if he gives them information on where Willa might be and it results in her arrest, and then they will try her as a minor, but they also tack on that if she does not, if she resists arrest or she hurts anyone else, then they won’t. And so this is, that’s part of the strategy that they put together with Rio.

AJ (02:06:16.639)
Right.

AJ (02:06:20.702)
Right. And that’s the part they didn’t really tell him about. They just told him the first part.

Tara (02:06:24.845)
Yeah.

Well, I mean, they did tell him, but they didn’t make it clear.

AJ (02:06:32.544)
They didn’t… Well, I don’t think they told him that part until later.

Tara (02:06:39.757)
Don’t they say like, I think, I feel like they just kind of throw it away. Like it’s not, they don’t make an emphasis on it. Am I wrong? I could be wrong.

AJ (02:06:41.29)
the part about.

AJ (02:06:51.772)
I don’t think… I don’t think so. I think they tell him later because he didn’t know anything about it.

Tara (02:06:59.14)
Ahem.

AJ (02:07:01.012)
I don’t know.

AJ (02:07:06.57)
Anyway.

Tara (02:07:08.237)
So yeah, so he gives them details on where Willow might be. And so then she like sends people off to clear locations that he gives them, but she pulls off on a hunch that Willow has returned to her mother’s house so she can lie in wait to kill the family. Then she calls Nadine and has Nadine do a

live of basically a live stream or whatever you want to call it of the other team or one of the other teams in one of the locations going to like catch you know going to arrest her and she and Peabody and Roarke go to her mother’s house and they are

AJ (02:08:05.738)
Right.

Tara (02:08:10.029)
They figure out, how do they figure out that she’s there? Roarke has the thing, Roarke has the heat sensor or do they just go?

AJ (02:08:20.278)
Yeah.

Yeah, Rorcas the heat sensor, because I’m pretty sure that they they realize she’s in there and they call the team. They call Loewenbaum and they say leave some leave some officers there so it still looks like an op is going on. But you and the people that you pick come here.

Tara (02:08:23.303)
and shh.

Yeah.

Tara (02:08:35.913)
Yeah, the tea…

Tara (02:08:50.859)
Yes. And so, but the three of them go in anyway. And they all go in different entrances or even more go in together.

I can’t remember if Eve and Roarke go in together, but… Well, yes. But obviously they are not together when she attacks Eve. And then like Eve closes the door or something. So she’s in there alone with Willow and Willow throws some sort of like… bomb type, what is it? Like a…

AJ (02:09:09.007)
Well, Roarke are always together, so I would… There’s never a time when they’re not together.

AJ (02:09:19.839)
Right.

AJ (02:09:38.603)
Right.

Tara (02:09:39.465)
little explosive device. And then, yeah, so then Eve and, you know, back to this.

AJ (02:09:41.504)
Right.

AJ (02:09:50.164)
Tara (02:09:50.279)
There’s a hand-to-hand between Eve and Willow and she takes Willow down. And Willow has like a laser or a knife. It’s a knife, I think, that she tries to stab Dallas, like tries to slit her throat and she gets her hand instead.

AJ (02:09:58.846)
Right, it’s a knife, she has a knife.

AJ (02:10:05.407)
Yeah.

Tara (02:10:08.269)
And then they go to back to central and they do the interview her the three of them Eve Peabody and Rio and They like basically get her to confess really fucking easily to everything and she’s like But they before they start the interview they like set her up so that she overhears even Rio talking about

AJ (02:10:37.736)
Right. Right.

Tara (02:10:38.125)
how she’ll be tried as a minor.

And then of course, like as it as they wrap up they’re like, but actually you little bitch You didn’t you know The the bargain that was agreed to with your father was was not that end of the bargain wasn’t held up So you are gonna be not tried as a minor

So that’s fun.

AJ (02:11:09.728)
So yeah.

Tara (02:11:09.741)
And that interview is crazy. The interview with her is just, wow.

AJ (02:11:12.457)
Yeah.

AJ (02:11:15.818)
Well, the interview with both of them is pretty… pretty bad, but yeah.

Tara (02:11:18.796)
Yeah.

Tara (02:11:23.949)
Yeah, I just was like this girl is I mean and that’s of course where I think after they’re done mirrors like she’s a sociopath or whatever

think Nira says it.

AJ (02:11:36.319)
Yeah.

Or psychopaths, she says.

Tara (02:11:40.174)
Psychopath. Yeah. Again, I am not a psychologist, so I do not know the difference. And then Eve has to do a press conference, because course she does. She’s real fucking pleased about it. I love when she does the, is in the media room and

AJ (02:11:50.143)
Right.

Tara (02:12:10.389)
I forget what question she gets asked, but then like, tipple, it’s Chief Tibble that steps up, right? Or is it Whitney? Yeah, I thought it was Tibble. And he kind of like shoots him down. And then he’s like, all right, you can go home. I love, I love when he, he’s very much like kind of Eve in that moment where he’s, there’s like that underlying,

AJ (02:12:18.208)
Yeah.

AJ (02:12:21.482)
No, could be.

Tara (02:12:42.509)
that she brings with like basically like I want to make you feel like shit for the dumbass questions you’re asking and like Tybalt is a lot nicer than Eve but still he’s hinting the disappointment is there and it’s great so yeah

AJ (02:12:49.62)
Ha ha ha ha.

AJ (02:13:00.234)
Yeah.

Tara (02:13:07.947)
That’s day three.

AJ (02:13:09.536)
So, yeah, that again skipped over quite a bit, but, I was just looking at, what they told to Richard Olmackie.

AJ (02:13:26.422)
So it says all business now Rio sat in the chair, Eve had vacated. She could and would be tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Again, multiple sentences. She would be transported to an off planet penal colony where she would spend given current life and expectancies the next century. And Eve’s like maybe, he says maybe I forced her to do it. And

Rio’s like that won’t fly. I pressured her, I brainwashed her. And, you know, she’s saying that I don’t think that’ll work. So she says, despite all this, she continued, we’ll all Macchius 15 and we will agree to these terms in order to save the lives of innocent people. It’s one time offer and the clock’s ticking on it.

I suspect I’m trying to see where they told him.

Willow Mackey will kill again. I suspect she will do so very soon if not apprehended. If you help us prevent that, if she harms no one and is apprehended peacefully, she’ll be tried as a minor. So they did kind of, they said peacefully. If she harms no one and is apprehended peacefully, she’ll be tried as a minor and be eligible for release on her 18th birthday. She will understand this, be evaluated physically and mentally.

She will have to agree to residence in a halfway house and counseling with further evaluations from her 18th birthday for a period of one year. Those are the terms.

AJ (02:15:18.026)
I mean, they didn’t really, they told him but they didn’t tell him, you know what saying?

Tara (02:15:21.751)
Yeah.

AJ (02:15:23.21)
They didn’t say if she even, you know…

AJ (02:15:29.756)
no, they did.

AJ (02:15:35.802)
says, I want another guarantee. Mackie said to Rio, I want to guarantee she’ll be brought in alive and unharmed. Mr. Mackie, I’m an APA, not a police officer. I can’t guarantee what may happen during the attempt to apprehend her. If she resists or she fires on officers or civilians, they bring her in alive or no deal.

I can amend the deal this way. I can promise that every attempt will be made to bring your daughter in alive, that no officer will use excessive force, or give a termination order. If I told you I could do more, you’d know I was lying to you. I’m giving you the best chance for her.

AJ (02:16:17.12)
So she tried to tell him she resists or she fires on officers or civilians and he said, if they bring it alive, no deal. So yeah.

Tara (02:16:18.573)
Should try it.

Tara (02:16:33.205)
No deal, my dude.

AJ (02:16:35.796)
Yep, no deal, because she hurt people.

Tara (02:16:39.447)
Yeah. She heard Eve and also like fired on Roarke and Peabody.

AJ (02:16:47.135)
Right.

AJ (02:16:52.736)
So.

Tara (02:16:54.699)
Are you ready for the next tip?

AJ (02:16:56.507)
I am ready for the next day.

AJ (02:17:02.42)
All right, so day four after a full night’s sleep, Eve is fully restored by a session with the healing wand and a medicated soak in the tub, coffee and breakfast. That’s a weird way to say that.

I guess that’s Eva’s fully restored by a session with the healing one and medicated soak in the tub coffee and breakfast.

Tara (02:17:18.999)
What?

Tara (02:17:26.317)
Yeah, she seems like a… It’s a little weird. It’s a little weird.

AJ (02:17:32.166)
Rork Shoxy with her new office and command center. That was some quick work.

Tara (02:17:40.332)
Right?

AJ (02:17:41.398)
It’s only been a couple of days. This is day four. And on day one, he showed her the plants. And she approved one.

She actually didn’t, yeah. It’s been five minutes. I mean, he got somebody, they got somebody in like that day. He was like, you better do this really fucking quick. Get all the people you can get.

Tara (02:17:53.473)
Yeah, it’s been like five minutes.

Tara (02:18:06.743)
Right? She’s like, I like this one. He’s like, I’m doing it now.

AJ (02:18:10.153)
Yeah, do it now before she changes her mind.

And I will pay for as many people as you can get in here to do this while she’s, you know, working on this case.

Tara (02:18:19.213)
Right?

Tara (02:18:24.408)
you know he did too.

AJ (02:18:26.39)
The crew had worked double shifts while she tracked down the snipers and Eve says, holy shit, holy shit.

and so much is, I feel like so much is being left out here because right after that it’s like, that afternoon is Bella’s one year birthday party. Even Rorky have Bella an amazing castle like dollhouse. Eva summoned away from, yeah. all of that is correct.

Tara (02:18:37.687)
Yeah, surprise.

Tara (02:18:47.422)
Yeah.

Tara (02:19:00.151)
It is.

AJ (02:19:01.655)
yeah, they gave Bella a amazing dollhouse.

Tara (02:19:07.553)
There’s a lovely scene, you know.

whatever, how we feel about it. But there’s a lovely scene where Eve watches Bella opening the dollhouse and how happy she is and her gratitude. And then the little kid that wants to play with it, and she’s like, yeah, fuck no. And then she’s like, no, it’s OK. just had to a moment.

AJ (02:19:23.06)
Yeah.

AJ (02:19:26.486)
Yeah, I just had to have my moment and then now you can play with it along with me. Yeah. It is super cute. It’s a little better. No, actually, that’s kind of the same thing that happened at Caitlin’s second birthday party when we gave her this toy.

Tara (02:19:35.905)
It’s just super cute.

AJ (02:19:47.862)
And she was trying to do the toy and my nephew was trying to keep show her how to, no, you do it this way. You do it this way. he’s Levi was like four at the time. No, you do it this way. You do it this way. finally have this all on video. Finally, he, he like, she, Caitlin had had enough of him like getting in her way and trying to show her how to do it. And she just basically went, he runs off crying.

Tara (02:20:13.055)
AJ (02:20:17.494)
And I’m standing there like, well, you know, I mean.

Tara (02:20:19.745)
Oops. That’s that’s really funny, Like, no, I’m good. And that because they’re kids, you know, I don’t know.

AJ (02:20:30.186)
They’re kids. Yeah. Because later on they were playing with the toy together, so. Anyway.

Tara (02:20:38.437)
cute. That’s a fun story to think about and also the fact that you have video, yes. That’s amazing.

AJ (02:20:44.948)
Yes.

So, yeah, Eva summoned away from the party to Cop Central. Willow fooled a social worker into taking her to the infirmary where she grabbed a scalpel and assaulted the guard and medic. Fortunately, Officer Shelby was there and stunned her. Away to go, Officer Shelby. Already proving herself to be a valuable member of the team. Yep.

Tara (02:21:07.543)
These are Shelby. So good.

Tara (02:21:13.709)
She’s a fucking star.

AJ (02:21:18.172)
Willow is transferred to maximum security at Riker’s to await trial. Then she’ll live in a cage on Omega for the rest of her life. Even Roarke returned to the party, the weird and happy to have some birthday cake made by Ariel Greenfield.

Tara (02:21:37.951)
love that they go back to the party.

AJ (02:21:40.936)
Yeah, because, yeah, all of that happens.

Tara (02:21:42.413)
I, yeah.

AJ (02:21:51.808)
Hang on a second, I’m gonna get to…

yeah, so all that happens, right. And,

AJ (02:22:06.89)
Let’s see. She says, Roarke says, are we done here now? And Eve says, absolutely. And he says, there’s good news is this place is starting to make me twitchy. Not a cage that could hold you, Ace. I’d rather never find out. I just have to go up, make the arrangements for the transfer and I should contact Whitney. Just bring them up to speed. Then we’re done.

As they moved back the correct way, in his opinion, through the doors, he ran a hand down her back. On home then? She started to nod. Home sounded excellent and then she thought, choices. To kill, to train to kill. To move into trouble or turn away. To share a precious new gift, to give thanks. Wherever you came from, however you grew up, it always came down to the choices you made.

even when you had even when you only had one year on the planet. She made one of her own and took a sand. Let’s go back to the party. Voluntarily, he said, making her laugh. Let’s go back to the weird and the happy. Let’s go have some fucking birthday cake. He made a choice of his own, cupped her chin and then kissed her. That sounds absolutely perfect. They rode up away from the cages from the curses and tears.

from those who chose to shed blood and made their way back to the weird and the happy.

Tara (02:23:45.193)
Eve is also like, I need some fucking birthday cake. Essentially. Get that woman some birthday cake.

AJ (02:23:49.62)
Right?

AJ (02:23:54.143)
Yeah.

and probably some ice cream because I’m still saying that the, that the theme is cold, even though there was a lot of talk about choices.

in this book as well.

Tara (02:24:10.861)
It’s true. I mean, ice cream and cake together, it’s a win.

AJ (02:24:19.376)
And yeah, so there’s a lot of talk about choices and Eve had to make a choice in her, you know, she had to choose, you know, what, what the design was going to be of her new office. But I still think it’s cold. So.

Tara (02:24:39.105)
mean, here’s the thing, you know, there’s room for other themes within. And cold could be one.

AJ (02:24:45.937)
Yes. Yeah.

Gold is one and choices are one and power is one. You know, we didn’t talk about a lot of things because this, yeah, this outline didn’t go into very much detail. We didn’t talk about the next day after after Loebbaum comes to consult at the at the house and Eve picks which design she likes for her office.

Tara (02:24:56.459)
a lot of things.

AJ (02:25:17.078)
And then they go to bed and the next day they wake up and Roarke is on his, his tablet. And it’s saying that Eve came out and said, what’s on it? What are you looking at on the tablet? And he’s like, nothing, you know, and she’s like, no, you’re looking at something. What are you looking at? He tells her it’s the plans that he had Charmaine do for the bedroom. So they’re looking at that.

Tara (02:25:40.855)
bedroom. Yes.

AJ (02:25:43.843)
And she’s saying that she likes the bed. The bed is very ornate.

It did sound like an ornate bed.

Tara (02:25:58.553)
She was like saying that certain things were fussy, but then she was like, this bed is very ornate or even… Yeah. But she liked the detail of that.

AJ (02:26:02.23)
Yeah. Well, it’s through the frilly curtains and stuff.

AJ (02:26:12.362)
Yeah, it says,

It had a high headboard and the long footboard edged with a frame carved with Celtic symbols. All dark, rich, glossy wood that looked old and important. And Roarke tells a whole story about the bed was made by some rich Irishman.

centuries ago for his, he made the bed because he was sure that he was going to find a young beautiful wife and he was going to share the bed with his young beautiful wife and then years went by and he never found the young beautiful wife and then one day he met a you know older woman like our woman his age

Tara (02:27:02.221)
and they were both old at that point.

AJ (02:27:03.318)
And they were both older at that point and they became friends and he liked her a lot. So he went ahead and asked her to marry him. And on their wedding night, she led him to that bed. And…

Tara (02:27:05.823)
Yeah.

AJ (02:27:20.278)
And it was so funny because like, he’s telling the story about they talked in the garden of her garden and his business, and the gossip and the politics of the day. And he was like, and they fell in love and lived happily ever after. And Dork’s like, Can you just let me tell the story, please? Thank you.

Tara (02:27:36.908)
Right?

Like, Eve very much is not in the mood for stories, but he’s like, just let me fucking tell you a story.

AJ (02:27:46.634)
Yeah, and he says, you know, that that she that the woman led him to the bed. And in her, he saw the bride he’d once imagined, not the young beauty, but the woman, the substance, the consistency, the wit and the kindness. And in this marriage bed, friendship strong and true became a strong and true love. Now it’s said that those who share the bed will know the same. I think they already know that, but OK.

Tara (02:28:13.601)
Right?

AJ (02:28:14.102)
It’s good to be prepared. Like it’s good to have, you know, backup. So a bed with a bunch of Celtic symbols that has this story attached to it is it never hurts. So there you go. It really is a lovely story. accommodations, accommodations.

Tara (02:28:24.301)
Alright, that doesn’t hurt.

Tara (02:28:30.379)
And it’s a lovely story.

AJ (02:28:41.174)
We never know how say that word. It’s commendations. And we’re like, I don’t know, accommodations, accommodations, accommodations.

Tara (02:28:47.511)
audition.

Tara (02:28:51.117)
Combinations. It’s actually what it is.

AJ (02:29:01.472)
Commendations Tara what what common who do we want to give commendations to?

Tara (02:29:03.179)
and Dave.

Tara (02:29:15.383)
so many people.

AJ (02:29:26.72)
There are so many people, a lot of people helped out a lot on Okay.

Tara (02:29:27.405)
go with… I’m gonna go with Somerset. Yeah, I think obviously like, you know, when he’s helping out at Madison Square, but also like I love that Somerset went to Mavis’ concert and like took Ivana and this, you know, just like seeing Somerset doing that.

Tara (02:31:49.238)
If it wasn’t, it was normal. So what I was saying was just I love that Somerset went to the concert too. Mavis Freestone probably because he loves Mavis and less about her music. And I love that. Listen, I…

AJ (02:32:08.744)
Yes.

Tara (02:32:16.137)
You would have to really, really talk me into going to a concert that I love of the people that I loved that was at fucking Madison Square Garden. That’s way too many fucking people. So I love it. I love him for that. I just. And I really also feel like.

AJ (02:32:23.254)
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

AJ (02:32:32.638)
I don’t know, you know what, if you had free tickets… I would go.

Tara (02:32:36.565)
I would still, yeah, still would, mean, maybe, sure.

AJ (02:32:43.072)
Somebody that you really loved.

Tara (02:32:46.393)
Sure, yeah. Okay, if I had free tickets, I would be like, yeah, but I probably would be like, I’d really like to just not be here. Could I do this in a smaller space? I don’t know. I just, I feel like, I just feel like that’s a really, really lovely thing that he went. Obviously, Roarke gave him the tickets, but like still.

AJ (02:32:47.667)
Okay.

AJ (02:32:55.914)
Well sure, yeah. Yeah.

AJ (02:33:08.97)
Yeah. Yes.

Tara (02:33:12.503)
Listen, you could also be like, okay, but maybe I could literally just have Mavis do a private concert in my home because she’s my friend.

AJ (02:33:19.572)
Right? I mean, he could have said, yeah, I don’t know, it’s not the kind of music that I’m into and stuff, but no, you’re right. It was because he loves Mavis so much.

Tara (02:33:24.342)
Yeah.

Tara (02:33:30.317)
And I love that. and also like I had to choose someone and they’re like a fucking list a mile long, so.

AJ (02:33:38.448)
There really is. Starting with Loewenbaum, who is my pick. Because Loewenbaum, yeah, I mean, he really he did the job. And even though I mean, this this hit hard for him. So, you know, I mean, the fact that he still did the job, did it well.

Tara (02:33:45.644)
Yeah.

Lone Bomb is going through it.

AJ (02:34:05.694)
I just love his interactions, his interaction with Eve and Roarke at the beginning. yeah, he just, there was a scene too. I wanted, there was another scene that I wanted to bring up. Hang on a second, I can find it pretty quickly.

Tara (02:34:06.209)
That’s huge.

AJ (02:34:31.422)
I can find it really quickly. Tara, I promise you.

Tara (02:34:36.429)
I believe you. I believe you.

AJ (02:34:40.188)
I can, I can, okay.

AJ (02:34:47.626)
God damn it. And I touched this thing and it went to some. Hang on a second.

Tara (02:34:49.677)
you

AJ (02:34:54.483)
Okay, so…

This is Chapter 10.

AJ (02:35:03.382)
I think it was after they took him, they took Mackie.

Tara (02:35:07.404)
Okay?

AJ (02:35:08.628)
Reginald Mackie. Lo and Bom caught up with her. Eve moved fast, took her arm. They may have a point. This is after the the conference, the media conference.

and they said something about, didn’t he know ahead of time? Didn’t he see what was, who Mackie was? Didn’t they, didn’t, why didn’t Mackie’s predilection show on his evaluations? That kind of thing. So he says to Eve, they may have a point. The reporters, most of them have a point on the top of their heads. I didn’t see a killer Dallas.

He was one of mine and I didn’t see what he was. Because he wasn’t. She had to keep moving, but she also needed Loewenbaum and needed him steady. If that was in him all along, the Army missed it, the NYPSD missed it, his former LT missed it, testing missed it, what makes you so damn special?

Tara (02:36:19.341)
Thanks Eve.

AJ (02:36:20.83)
Right? And then she says, and where’s that gum you always have? Perplexed, Loewenbaum pulled it out of his pocket as they worked their way through the maze of glides toward homicide. You want? No, it smells purple. How do you choose something that smells purple? Since it was in his hand, Loewenbaum unwrapped a piece, popped it in. I used to smoke. And Mackie used to be a pretty solid cop. Things change. Our jobs to stop him.

And after that, it’s Mira’s territory.

Tara (02:36:54.125)
Yeah, I forgot about that scene. That’s a great scene. Also, it smells purple. You know, everyone knows what that means. Everyone knows what that means. Like, didn’t even bat an eye. It smells purple.

AJ (02:36:55.337)
So.

That really is a great scene, you know? It smells, no I don’t want it.

Yeah, yeah. How do you choose something that smells purple?

I agree the fruity gums aren’t really my favorite. But, you know. so yeah, I mean, you know, I guess that was just all to say that yeah, Loewenbaum was going through it. And, but he kept his head, he kept a cool head. And he did the job.

Tara (02:37:19.433)
Yeah, it’s…

Tara (02:37:37.025)
Yeah, he did. mean, that’s a lot. That’s a lot. you know, we’ve, we spent so much time with Eve’s people, like, we’re just, not gonna see that happen with one of her people. But, but who’s, mean, but seeing other cops go through that is still important, I think that like we, we have Eve.

AJ (02:37:52.319)
Right.

Tara (02:38:06.665)
see how good leaders, because you think about all of the quote unquote dirty cops through the series, a lot of them like the lieutenant or you know like, Obermann or like just the leadership is the corrupt part. And so like here you see from Loewenbaum’s perspective is that he is the leadership and that that conflict looked different when

AJ (02:38:29.44)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (02:38:35.221)
you know, when Mackie was still on the force. And I don’t know, it’s just very interesting to think about.

AJ (02:38:39.818)
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, kudos to him for dealing with that and getting through it and hopefully realizing he wasn’t a bad boss for not seeing that in the guy and not beating himself up. Hopefully he didn’t beat himself up too much. We don’t know because we don’t really see Loewenbaum when he’s not in this book, but, yeah.

Tara (02:38:49.975)
Yeah.

Tara (02:38:56.812)
Yeah.

Tara (02:39:07.127)
could hope.

AJ (02:39:07.35)
So, okay, I guess that’s it. we have anything else that we need to… I’m sure, like, you know, a lot of stuff is glossed over, but I mean, we’ll probably talk about a lot of that stuff during we review the reviews. But if we missed anything, yeah, you know, call the number. 205-476-2753. So, or send us a message or post something on our Facebook.

Tara (02:39:14.411)
Yeah. yeah, that’s okay.

Tara (02:39:21.611)
Yeah, and of course if anyone has anything, let us know.

Tara (02:39:28.641)
the number.

Yes.

AJ (02:39:36.508)
And we’ll talk about all of your comments on We Review the Reviews. So for right now, I guess we go on to podcast business.

Tara (02:39:44.725)
Alright.

AJ (02:39:47.024)
so I don’t think we have any more, any more, patrons this week. next week. So you’re okay with recording next week, right? Cause you asked me about it.

Tara (02:39:55.596)
Okay?

Tara (02:40:05.451)
Yeah, I wanted to I just wanted to know because it was on my calendar and I hadn’t heard anything. Yeah.

AJ (02:40:08.874)
13th. Yeah, I just heard from her today and she said, yeah, she’s still on. So I still have to send her the Zoom meeting link. And essentially I told her, you know, that we just want her thoughts on the series. I should probably say that. So next week we have a special guest. A while back, Dana sent us a

Tara (02:40:13.183)
Okay.

AJ (02:40:38.77)
a document with some suggestions of guests, because Dana follows closely a website called, gosh, what is the name of that website? Criminal Element, think it is. And it’s a website about, you know, mystery books, murder mysteries, that kind of thing. And there was an author

AJ (02:41:10.676)
Sorry.

I want to say Christie and I said it’s Kristen. Kristen Houghton. And she wrote an article about the In Death series. And that’s one of the suggestions that Dana put in that we could contact her and talk to her about the article that she wrote for for criminal element. So I contacted her, asked her she wanted to come on the show and she said yes.

So, so yeah, she is going to come on and she’s going to talk about the in-depth series, but also her own series, because she writes a series, with a, it’s kind of like a murder mystery series also where the main character is a woman, who is a, I think it’s a private detective. Yeah. So, she also wrote a self-help book. can’t remember the name of it right now.

Tara (02:42:02.285)
I love that.

AJ (02:42:10.122)
it’s about how often people get in the way of their own happiness. And I was thinking, I might ask her a few questions about that and how she thinks Eve gets in the way of her own happiness. Cause Eve does. Yeah. So, so we’ll talk to Kristen Houghton next week. after that is re-review the reviews. then.

Tara (02:42:23.341)
That’s a really good question.

Tara (02:42:31.404)
I love it.

Tara (02:42:36.342)
Yes.

AJ (02:42:40.31)
Tara and I have decided to do something crazy. Kind of. Tara has, we’ve been asking Tara for like, since this podcast started to read the year one trilogy. Tara’s read book one book two, but she’s been dragging her feet on book three. But she has a lot to read because you know, Tara,

Tara (02:42:46.093)
crazy.

Well, you

Tara (02:43:05.473)
Yeah.

AJ (02:43:09.744)
we have to read the books for this series and it’s doesn’t seem like a lot but yeah it’s not a lot for me but sometimes it is sometimes they get busy and i can’t even read the books from these series. Tara’s more busy than i am so it’s hard you know we’re reading the book from these series and then she’s going to try to read another series from Nora and it’s just a lot.

So, and we, we had, talked about year one on our last episode. Then we had somebody in our in-depth, Facebook page who said, Hey, if you, if you guys eventually talk about year one, I want to be a part of that because it’s one of my favorite series or it’s her favorite series that Nora Roberts has ever done. it’s also one of mine. so I was like, yeah, we keep talking about, we’re gonna, she’s going to finish this series and we’re going to talk about it.

And then it came to me like, wait a minute. Why do we have to wait? Why don’t we just put a pause on the in-depth series for right now? Because everyone were so, we want Tara to read this year one trilogy. So I said to Tara, why don’t we put a pause on the in-depth series just for now? For the next three months, we will focus on the year one trilogy.

Tara (02:44:38.317)
thinking about that and I probably should have just said this to you in a text but I’ll say it on here and you can edit whatever you want. What if, because you had, I’ll let you explain that as well, but like what if we did after we do the episode with Kristen and the we review the reviews then we do an episode on year one

AJ (02:44:44.138)
Okay.

AJ (02:44:59.382)
Hmm

AJ (02:45:05.908)
Mm-hmm. The first book?

Tara (02:45:08.619)
the first book, and then we do, we talked about doing like a discussion, like a discussion with people, and then we do the review, the reviews, and then why don’t we come back to In Death for a week and do some sort of like pod villa type episode, and then go back, like just to like the people who are not reading this series.

AJ (02:45:16.554)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (02:45:34.677)
Yeah.

Tara (02:45:36.385)
That way we still have some in-depth content at least once a month for a couple months. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what that content is right now, but I was just thinking that. was like, well, you know, if…

AJ (02:45:39.764)
Right, yeah, yeah, we can do that.

AJ (02:45:50.582)
I think you’re underestimating the amount of people that would be bothered or you’re overestimating the number people that would be bothered by us stopping and then spending three months on year one.

Tara (02:46:03.149)
Probably, but also like I don’t know that I personally want to step away from even work for three straight months, you know But you also and I think that this is a really good idea you also talked about like how Eve and co would Would survive would would exist within this This world

AJ (02:46:25.982)
Right.

AJ (02:46:31.772)
Right. Right. So we’re going to, can, I can say, cause I still think that we just, I don’t want to do to, you know, I don’t want to do the books back, back to back because I still need time to read them and you do too. so I still want to do the next three months, each book. but yeah, I can, I can mention that,

Tara (02:46:33.767)
So, yeah.

Tara (02:46:55.458)
Yeah.

AJ (02:47:01.406)
we’ll do in-depth content during that time for people that haven’t read year one.

Tara (02:47:08.749)
Right, because maybe other people don’t have time to read any three of them at all, you know.

AJ (02:47:13.908)
Right. I feel like most Nora Roberts fans have read year one. Have all JD Robb fans read year one? Probably not, but maybe this is a way to get them to read it because I think anybody that enjoys this series would enjoy year one.

Tara (02:47:21.281)
Yeah, yeah, a lot of you have said that.

AJ (02:47:38.806)
So may we say that.

Tara (02:47:38.828)
Yeah.

Tara (02:47:43.703)
I like that.

AJ (02:47:44.48)
What are your reservations? You don’t want to step away from the Indeath series for three months?

Tara (02:47:51.434)
I’m feeling like…

because I’m not doing it yet, you know? I don’t know that it’s that I can like make a completely fair assessment either direction to be like it just feels I guess I my brain is like it feels weird to be like you know

AJ (02:47:57.31)
Right.

AJ (02:48:07.412)
Right. Well, and we have, yeah, I mean, we really haven’t done that before. I was going to say that we’ve done episodes where we’ve read Nora books, but that’s usually done as a pod fella. In between the books, so, but again, I mean, we’re coming up on forty third book and.

Tara (02:48:18.384)
Ahem.

AJ (02:48:37.152)
Did I say 43rd book? And we started this and we read Shadows and that’s book 51. So there’s not a whole lot of time between the books that we’ve actually read already. Which is why I’m saying like we can step away probably for three months and do this and then come back to it.

Tara (02:48:49.644)
Yeah.

AJ (02:49:09.408)
but are you thinking that people will be like, fuck this, and then stop listening and then not come back?

Tara (02:49:13.069)
No, no, no, I’m not thinking that at all. I have no problem with taking a break from the progression of the series as a whole. I was just thinking it might be cool to like…

AJ (02:49:29.31)
Make sure we talk about it in depth.

Tara (02:49:30.101)
check, yeah, just check in within death, I guess. Like, you know, we do the book, we do all those things, and then we do a recording, just check, you know, something pod villa-ish, you know, all of Rook’s, yeah. And if it can tie, if we can tie both together, or, you know, we can also just be like,

AJ (02:49:34.975)
Right.

AJ (02:49:48.096)
that ties both in.

AJ (02:49:56.683)
Yeah.

Tara (02:49:58.785)
You know, because I know that we also have some like, or at least at some point, I thought we did had some potential other guests. So obviously, like, I don’t want to be like, we have guests that want to be on the show. And we’re like, well, we’re not talking about in death until September or something. That’s further out than I wanted. But you know, saying. No, I don’t know how numbers work, so.

AJ (02:50:10.26)
Guess. Yeah.

AJ (02:50:21.642)
Well, when, when be September, it’d be like, because we would start in May. Yeah. July.

Tara (02:50:27.181)
Um, July. But you know what saying? So that’s what, and I’m not, and I’m not like, no, we have to do that. I just, I’m like, I’m, I’m just not sure yet how I feel about not talking about in-depth for three months.

AJ (02:50:34.835)
Yeah.

Tara (02:50:48.565)
Like, well, I’m, I’m, whatever, I don’t even know if this, right? Well, I don’t even know what the next book is in this series. What is it?

AJ (02:50:51.09)
on an in-depth podcast.

Tara (02:51:01.549)
See we’re not allowed to take this time off. We’ll forget things though But I feel like I would get to the next book and I would be like what the fuck even happened in the last book the good news is apprentices like Even if you don’t remember the details you remember what happened in that. What is it?

AJ (02:51:16.764)
Yeah, we’re not going to forget what happens in the books.

Um, hang on a second. I’m looking it up right now.

AJ (02:51:27.529)
All books.

Let’s go down here to apprentice.

AJ (02:51:38.71)
I’m out.

AJ (02:51:43.69)
echoes.

Tara (02:51:45.482)
echoes.

AJ (02:51:48.576)
So what we’ve got coming up is Echoes, Secrets, Dark, Leverage, Connections, Vendetta, Golden. And then the first new book that we read was Shadows.

Tara (02:51:59.448)
shadows, yeah.

AJ (02:52:05.297)
yeah.

Tara (02:52:09.079)
Well, I absolutely am down to jump into that trilogy, especially because I will be taking a long road trip in a couple weeks. So it’ll be a nice way for me to… I’ve actually not listened to those. I’ve read those books. But I have Audible credits and also Libby, so I will listen to it on my road trip.

AJ (02:52:29.247)
Okay.

AJ (02:52:35.464)
Okay. All right. So can I continue with my… What have we decided? Well, okay. Well, I’m going to say that we’re going to tie it in with In Death.

AJ (02:52:48.118)
I forgot where I left off, so… Anyway.

So.

The is to take a little break from In Death and read the Chronicles of the One. Now, I will be honest with all of you. Terra has a little bit of misgivings. Us leaving the In Death world for three months. And we know that not all of you read Nora Roberts.

Some of you just read JD Robb and don’t know anything about the Chronicles of the One series, nor do you want to. Got it. I feel like, I really feel like anybody that likes In Death would probably like the Chronicles of the One series. I would say if you are somebody out there,

who is like, they’re gonna spend, what, three months on Chronicles of the One series? Like, that’s ridiculous. How can they do that? I want in death. Just go with us on this journey. Just take a chance. Go with us on this journey. Pick up the first book of Chronicles of the One, which is year one. It’s called year one. And,

Tara (02:54:17.153)
Yes.

AJ (02:54:21.974)
Try it out with us and see what you think. Now, this is not going to be, what we had planned on doing was we’ll read a book, we’ll review it like a normal in-depth book. The next week, we thought to open up a discussion, a Zoom call, like a book club kind of discussion with anyone that wants to join us and talk about Chronicles of the One.

and we’ll talk about year one and then we’ll do our normal, we review the reviews. We’ll do the, we review the reviews of, of a year one. And then the next, the next podcast, we’ll try to come up with, topics that will tie in the in-depth series to Chronicles of the One.

And I think what we had discussed was, for that first time doing that, maybe having a discussion about how all of our in-depth characters would deal with a post-apocalyptic world.

You know, Eve would be kicking everyone’s ass. Obviously. You know, my, my, I think it’d be really interesting to talk about what Roarke would do. mean, obviously Roarke would be Roarke, but without access to his millions, to his billions, you know.

Tara (02:55:43.905)
facts.

Tara (02:55:59.468)
That is fascinating, yeah.

AJ (02:56:02.238)
What, how would he handle that? And, you know, so that, that, you know, at least we’ll bring in a little bit of in-depth. We’ll come up with a similar topic maybe in the next month and the next month. I feel like three months will go by real quickly. So, so I say, I don’t know, we’ll see how it goes. We’ll see what the, what the response is. And,

Tara (02:56:05.164)
Yeah.

AJ (02:56:31.388)
And, you know, we’re going to all take this journey together with Tara, even though Tara’s already read the first two. She hasn’t. And you know, the interesting thing, Tara, is that they just did Chronicles of the One on the Rumancing the Shelf. And Emily, Heidi was the one that had read them all and loved them. Emily had read the first two, but never read the last one.

Tara (02:56:49.131)
Yes, they did.

Tara (02:56:56.087)
Okay.

Tara (02:57:01.677)
Huh.

AJ (02:57:02.568)
Yeah. So the last one was completely new to her. So that’s that’s kind of interesting that that happened there, too. So, so that’s what we’re going to that’s what we’re planning on doing. So this is starting the first week of May. Tara and I are going to start with year one in the Chronicles of the One Series. And

Tara (02:57:12.695)
So, let’s see.

AJ (02:57:32.744)
We’ll see how that goes. We’ll review it and see how it goes. And let’s hope. Let’s hope it goes well. And you guys can let us know if you want us to read more Nora books or whatever, and we’ll see how that fits in with everything else. Sorry. So having said that, I think that’s it for this episode of Podcasts and Death.

Tara (02:57:59.736)
Yeah, so next week we’re going to do the episode with Kristen. And then the week after that we review the reviews of Arentis.

AJ (02:58:04.342)
Kristen?

AJ (02:58:09.717)
Right.

Tara (02:58:12.129)
Yeah, after that, we’ll start our journey.

AJ (02:58:12.414)
And then after that, we can go right into year one. So hopefully this is not a pandemic year. So hopefully we won’t be so traumatized as we were during the pandemic reading that book. Yeah. No, can’t. Nope. Yeah. It was, it was hitting real close to home. so this, it’ll be better this time.

Tara (02:58:27.639)
Holy hell. I like started reading that book and I was like, wait, no.

Tara (02:58:37.249)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (02:58:41.932)
Yes.

AJ (02:58:42.772)
Yeah. So, okay. So yeah, that’s it for this episode of Podcasts in Death. If you want to get ahold of us, let us know your thoughts on Apprentice. Let us know whether or not you think we’re insane to take a break for three months to read the whole different book series than the In Death series or anything else that you have an opinion on. Go ahead and contact us. If you’re on our Facebook, you can leave a message on Facebook.

Tara (02:58:59.629)
you

AJ (02:59:12.162)
you can send us an email at show at podcast and death.com. You can call the number it’s 205-476-2753. That spells out two zero five four work. we’re on other social medias too. We’re on blue sky. We’re on, we’re on Instagram. so, and we’re also on Tik TOK kind of, but you can still send us a message on any of those social media platforms.

Tara (02:59:36.695)
Yeah, was gonna say, kinda.

AJ (02:59:42.574)
And I think that’s it for this episode of Podcasts in Death. So for Podcasts in Death, this is AJ.

Tara (02:59:46.155)
Okay?

Tara (02:59:52.471)
This is Tara.

AJ (02:59:54.047)
And we’ll see you next week, Bye.

Tara (02:59:56.225)
bye guys