Transcript

Tara (00:02.44)
Hey everyone, welcome once again to Podcast in Death, the weekly podcast where we discuss the In Death series of books by JD Robb. I’m Tara.

AJ (00:12.928)
I’m AJ.

Tara (00:14.364)
And this is episode 272. Yay. And AJ is not feeling well, so we’re going to try to take some of this responsibility of talking off of her. So unfortunately, you have to listen to my big mouth a lot on this episode in which we’re going to discuss. You’re so nice. We’re going to discuss Echoes and Death.

AJ (00:34.646)
It’s not unfortunate, but.

Tara (00:43.506)
That’s right, we’re back with Even Roarke and I’m so happy. I’m so excited to be back with them. Yeah, thank you guys for joining us on our Chronicles of the One journey. But definitely excited to be back with Even Roarke.

AJ (00:47.086)
Woo!

AJ (01:03.564)
Yeah, me too. So I’ve been thinking about like a theme for this book. And there could be a lot of things. I think the theme for me anyway is a show, like a play. Like not just a play, but a show. Those are two separate concepts, but you know I’m saying?

Tara (01:13.266)
Yeah.

AJ (01:33.784)
He’s putting on a show every time he’s doing his, you know, but also a show in that he’s doing a show in order to show people that he is, you know, the best and can, you he’s making women say a specific thing.

Tara (01:37.427)
Right.

AJ (02:00.002)
which could also, which adds to the show for him. You know, he’s dressing up in a costume and all of this essentially to show his aunt. wanted to get back at his aunt and to show his cousin as well who took, you know, the woman he wanted away from him. So.

Tara (02:14.545)
see that.

Tara (02:24.124)
Okay, yeah I see that.

I I that you, when you said show and a play, they are different things. The thing about watching a show from the perspective of the people who would be witnessing him, like his aunt, or who he thinks would be, he’s showing this to, like his aunt and the victims and stuff.

versus a play, which is live and in person. I think that, I don’t know, bringing up a play was also correct just because of how personal and how obviously active people were in the situation because they were his victims. So I don’t know, I just wanted to say that both of those sound great.

AJ (03:21.965)
Right.

Tara (03:30.014)
So, so yeah. I know, I know that you’re trying not to talk as much, but were you so excited to be back with even more?

AJ (03:30.359)
Right.

AJ (03:45.236)
I was. Yeah. Yeah. I kinda missed it. Yeah. And the- Go ahead.

Tara (03:46.824)
Ha

Tara (03:50.43)
I also… go on. I also started reading this book again and I was like, I forgot this book. And then I didn’t forget this book. Like, it just went halfway through the third or fourth chapter. I was like, oh, okay, I know where I am now.

AJ (04:08.032)
Right. the in yeah, I haven’t so this is this book, I think, in particular, is where I enter an era of books that I only read once, maybe twice. But, you know, earlier books, especially the very early books early on, I’ve read multiple times. But there came a point and I can’t remember.

Sorry, I’m going to go back and look.

What year was this published? Do we know?

Tara (04:52.824)
in 2008?

Tara (04:57.64)
Yes.

AJ (05:00.844)
What’s it 18? Hang on.

Tara (05:00.988)
I don’t know. I have the book in front of me. Jesus Christ, Tara. Hold on.

This interview is from 2017.

AJ (05:15.95)
Yeah, see, so 2017, Tara, is when in death.net officially shut down. So I think that was when, because in death.net, we would read a book and there’d be a lot of discussion about it.

so even if i hadn’t read a book more than once or more than a couple times we would still discuss it and so that the details of the book was still you know be fresh in my mind but once in death dot net went away then i would read a book once and maybe go back to it but never really you know

Tara (05:50.972)
Yeah, I get that.

AJ (06:05.736)
you know, it didn’t really stick with me because I was only reading the books once or twice.

Tara (06:07.08)
Yeah.

Tara (06:10.398)
No, I understand that. And I kind of feel like I’m very much in the same boat. There might have been, but there were a few that I feel like I may have gone back through again. But yeah, definitely. And also post 2015, I stopped having eight hours a day of listening to audiobooks straight. So.

AJ (06:37.933)
Right.

Tara (06:39.376)
So I also just kind of got to that little rhythm of, you know, listening to my favorite books over and over again when I was working at Signet. But yeah, I definitely feel like I only read this one once. But I’m glad I liked it more than I…

AJ (07:03.447)
Yeah.

Tara (07:03.998)
Remembered liking, I think?

AJ (07:07.138)
Yeah. I, so I don’t know if it’s the same with you, Tara, but, Eve seemed very different in this one to me. and how she interacted mostly with, what’s the woman’s name that was the woman that wandered out.

Tara (07:33.864)
Daphne, Daphne, yeah.

AJ (07:35.02)
Daphne. Mostly how she interacted with Daphne. But how she interacted with all of the witnesses and that kind of thing. A little kind of softer. Or more sympathetic especially with Daphne. It just seemed like a… I don’t want to say an abrupt.

change but it was it seemed a little bit different than previous books to me anyway

Tara (08:06.738)
What? I have the book in front of me. What was the book before this one?

Tara (08:15.536)
apprentice and before that was brotherhood. So I also feel like it’s it’s been a minute since she’s she’s she’s been dealing with kind of some shitty people in the processes. And yeah, I think I think that she was because I I agree with that. But at the same time, I was like, yeah, but she

AJ (08:29.258)
Yeah, and that might be, yeah.

Tara (08:41.222)
All these people were victims. All these people were loved ones of victims.

So maybe that? I don’t know.

AJ (08:51.074)
Yeah, could be.

Tara (08:56.048)
So we pulled the timeline from the wiki and we were just going to read that if that works.

AJ (09:08.396)
make it as easy on me as possible.

Tara (09:10.878)
as easy on her as possible. do, fair warning, I do have a little rant for this book. I did warn AJ that I had a rant. So that’s coming pretty early on.

AJ (09:19.096)
Uh-uh. That’s right. You said that, yeah.

AJ (09:29.462)
the other interesting thing in this one was for whatever reason I was reading it again. And I don’t know what it was about the attending doctor.

but I got this feeling like, he’s going to be the one that did it. Cause I don’t, I didn’t remember. Yeah.

Tara (09:50.071)
interesting. That would have been an interesting twist. Spoiler, he didn’t do it.

AJ (09:54.552)
see but he didn’t do it

Which I was glad, because he seemed like a nice guy. Yeah. But my headcanon is he and Daphne get together.

Tara (10:02.494)
He’s a guy.

So do you…

Tara (10:12.018)
That sounds good.

AJ (10:12.024)
Does he seem, I don’t know if he’s married, I don’t know if said that in the book.

Tara (10:16.744)
I don’t remember saying he was married and considering how much he was there over the like four days or whatever that this case took, probably not.

AJ (10:28.066)
huh.

Tara (10:29.054)
Probably not.

AJ (10:30.712)
Yeah.

Tara (10:36.61)
Do you want me to just read and then go from there? Okay, so, oh, I’m gonna go back to the document I made instead of the Wiki itself. okay.

AJ (10:50.638)
Yeah, the wiki is the worst. mean, I really, the way we do it, we do, we love the content of the wiki, but having it on fandom where they put so many like ads and stuff, it’s, it’s kind of the worst.

Tara (10:54.044)
We love the Wiki, but…

Tara (11:04.55)
ads.

So here we go.

Tara (11:14.76)
So as, this is the day one beginning, this is sometimes split into chapters. I’m not really sure. it’s in the days, I think. So, yeah? Yeah, I don’t know. So anyway,

AJ (11:23.916)
Yeah, I don’t think it’s split into chapters, but. Okay.

Yeah, not a big deal.

Tara (11:47.486)
Breathing this pump.

AJ (11:55.694)
Are you on the wiki? Sorry.

Tara (12:01.406)
I’m gonna go back to the wiki just in case. I thought maybe I copied it wrong. Sorry. Very likely did. It’s okay, it’s okay.

AJ (12:03.843)
Okay.

AJ (12:07.458)
You probably didn’t.

AJ (12:19.726)
This will all get edited out and it’ll sound like we knew what we were doing from the very beginning.

Tara (12:22.536)
Yes.

Tara (12:27.422)
feel like everybody knows better when it comes to me, but sometimes. Okay.

Tara (12:43.56)
So, at the very beginning, no I didn’t copy it wrong.

Tara (12:51.806)
Okay, so at the very beginning of the book, even Roarke are driving home.

Tara (12:58.526)
and this woman like runs out in front of them.

Tara (13:06.814)
and she collapses and they take her to the closest hospital. She has cuts, abrasions, bruises and a head wound, concussion, ligature marks around her wrists and neck and evidence of multiple rapes and hypothermia. Her name is Daphne Straza. She’s 24 and they found her in the Carnegie Hill area of the Upper East Side. She is second wife to a much older Dr. Anthony Straza. She whispers to them,

that there was someone in the house. It wasn’t a guest and that it was a devil. Let’s see, she said, not waiting a devil, it’s a devil. His face is a devil. My husband, he fell. He fell and the devil laughed. I don’t know, I don’t know. Please, I don’t know. So even Roarke leave her with the very capable doctor, Del Noble and…

They go to check on Anthony Straza. They find that the house is empty and the security is down, the door is unlocked. There are things missing from the house and Straza’s body is upstairs, beaten similarly to Daphne and he is dead from a fractured skull. So that is a fun introductory section.

AJ (14:31.662)
You

Tara (14:33.137)
You

AJ (14:35.042)
That’s a fun introduction.

Tara (14:36.67)
I know. And also, we find out, you know, later in the in the book, it’s like, reiterated that even work had been on vacation, and then they came back and did this fancy thing. And so like, welcome back.

AJ (14:50.637)
Yeah.

AJ (14:54.028)
Right? And the other thing is that she was like wandering around and she, think she was naked. Was she naked? She was naked wandering around with blood on her and stuff. of course that somewhat triggering to Eve or it’s something that she has to think about. She and Mira talk about that later, but yeah.

Tara (15:01.928)
She was naked, yeah.

Tara (15:17.2)
Yeah, Eve is… this is not an easy case for her.

AJ (15:22.935)
No.

Tara (15:25.214)
So yeah, so they’re at, go on.

AJ (15:26.542)
The wiki does not say that Dr. Noble is married, so I’m gonna assume he’s not and that he can, you know, he can get together with Daphne if he wants.

Tara (15:41.256)
he wants in a while, let her heal and reunite with her family.

AJ (15:45.539)
Well, yeah.

Exactly.

Tara (15:52.51)
So Eve wakes up Peabody and McNabb and they come in. I know that she has Roarke send a message to Somerset and he sends clothing for her because she’s wearing her fancy clothes.

AJ (16:11.245)
You

Yeah, because Peabody comes in and the first thing Peabody, it’s like murder scene. Guy dead, blood everywhere. First thing Peabody says is, my God, that dress. Then she’s like, ooh, and the shoes.

Tara (16:26.204)
Right, she’s like obsessed with these shoes.

And he was like, are you fucking kidding? That’s great. That’s great. Honestly, though, like I am I am with Eve mostly, but I really do appreciate seeing a like I really like a nice pretty dress and beautiful shoes. I’m probably not going to wear them because they have heels, but I was still going to appreciate them and be like, those are really pretty shoes. That’s me, though.

AJ (16:59.456)
Right, but you know, I mean, you’re on scene of a murder and that the last thing Eve wants to be, right, the last thing Eve wants to be wearing on the scene of a murder is her ball gown and sparkly high heels. It’s not the first time, but yeah.

Tara (17:02.526)
Right? I’m just a murder. You got to find levity somewhere.

Tara (17:12.126)
This is hardly the first time, Eve.

Tara (17:19.382)
Eve. So, yeah, so the Stratas are having a dinner party. So Eve has some of her detectives interview the party and guess the party guess and let’s see and then Eve and Peabody

Tara (17:43.71)
I’m just trying to, like, there’s a lot missing. Even Peabody are the ones that end up interviewing the caterers and the rental company. So here in the timeline, it just has some more information about the Strasas. So Daphne is sweet, gentle, and friendly. A lot of people have been saying that she’s afraid of her husband and that she’s widely liked. And then Anthony is cold, arrogant, egotistical.

overly perfectionistic, which is a quality I would like in a surgeon, domineering a liar and respected professionally, but widely disliked. Several witnesses saw what they thought was the entertainment for the dinner party, a man in a theatrical disguise talking on his link, going up the stairs of the house. So that was when Eve and Peabody interviewed the

AJ (18:23.533)
Right.

Tara (18:42.024)
the guys from the rental equipment company.

AJ (18:44.396)
Right.

Tara (18:46.15)
And two of them had said, I think there were three of them that saw this guy to some degree. And the one said that it looked like he just had, he was supposed to be there and he was.

you know, the entertainment or whatever. Before that, they go, so I had to back up because I have to get my rant in.

AJ (19:07.342)
Right.

AJ (19:18.285)
Okay.

Tara (19:20.048)
Okay, so the first people that they talk to after this are two other doctors from the hospital because they’re like, you were here and they had left first or whatever. And…

AJ (19:30.36)
Right.

Tara (19:40.262)
While they’re there Eve shares sensitive health information that she should not have and I Started off on my little like this is weird rant. So She does tell them So here’s the thing is if I’m not a police officer, but I do work like literally with like sensitive health care information And I cannot imagine in fact, I know that Eve

would not have permission to share with these people where Daphne is. I know she’s at their hospital, but there’s literally a line in the book saying they were gonna get this information anyway, which is 10,000 % false just because they are doctors at that hospital does not mean that they are entitled to Daphne’s personal information. Obviously, they ask about Daphne Eve’s not gonna lie to them and say,

I don’t know or she’s, you know, whatever. She can say she’s in the hospital, but she cannot share his personal information, information on her diagnosis. And I was like, okay. Well, sure Eve. But no, that is not okay. And I was, it’s…

AJ (21:02.57)
so, so, sorry, I don’t, I don’t really know my way around this, you know, law. so even just her telling them where Daphne is, is a HIPAA violation? Okay.

Tara (21:19.198)
Absolutely. Daphne, as a witness to a crime, as a person who is part of an ongoing investigation, very likely should have been admitted under some kind of like, synonym. Anyway. Now that is kind of outside my understanding of how that works, but no, you are not.

AJ (21:44.909)
Right?

Tara (21:48.784)
You are not entitled to know where a person is either, which hospital they’re at. Yeah. I mean, I would like to believe that our health care and our private health information remains something that is protected in the future. Really, really would love to believe that. So I was like, Eve. But I also know that it is not necessarily Nora’s like, like

AJ (21:52.974)
Okay.

Tara (22:17.778)
She doesn’t study this. However, as Eve continues to talk to people, she is like, well, she can’t say this to certain people. And I was like, but you’ve already said this to other people. I mean, yes, you are not supposed to say this to these people, whatever, but she even says to the other victims of the first two attacks, I can’t tell you. I can’t give you her information right now. But she gives that information not only

AJ (22:19.298)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (22:47.292)
to these two doctors who, yes, have access to that information if they really wanted, which would be complete violation of their jobs. If you were to do that where I work, you would lose your job accessing medical files that you have no reason to be in. But she also tells the cathering people where she is, where they can send soup.

AJ (22:52.482)
Bye.

AJ (23:13.364)
yeah.

Tara (23:15.486)
I was like Eve, but then she, but then like she’s, I don’t know. I was just kind of like, I, this is not okay. This is not okay. And Eve, to protect your investigation, it’s really not okay. But I’m not a police officer, so I can’t say I would know best in that area. But yeah, so that was my little frustration about that is that she was a little loosey goosey about how she’s sharing.

AJ (23:30.53)
Right.

Tara (23:44.87)
information and then just randomly being like, I can’t tell you that. And I was like, well, you’ve already told people that you can’t tell. So I don’t know what your, you know, what, what is, what is helping qualify who you can tell what to. So, but yeah, also, also as a victim of rape, I believe Daphne is, is entitled to a lot of very, very specific, like protections. Lastly, and this

AJ (23:46.157)
Right.

AJ (24:01.014)
Right.

AJ (24:12.94)
Right.

Tara (24:14.226)
This part sucks. This sucks so much. This sucks so much, but it’s 100 % just the world we live in. Eve and Del had no right, and literally no right to reach out to Daphne’s family. It sucks because that was the right thing to do, but legally, it sucks.

Tara (24:43.92)
And

AJ (24:44.11)
I mean.

Eve often reaches out to family.

Tara (24:51.186)
But remember that she has, like, first of all, Daphne has already said not to contact her family. Second, Daphne, like, so Daphne.

AJ (25:00.92)
Right.

But you don’t get to say that in a police investigation. You don’t get to say, no, don’t want you reaching out to my family. The police can still reach.

Tara (25:11.838)
Well, she doesn’t want them to reach out to her family because of what happened to her. so Eve, but Eve can’t share with them that she’s been raped. Eve can’t share with them that, like, she can’t tell them where she is if she is not given permission for Eve and Dr. Noble to go to Tish and say she is here. You can ask them and be like, this is…

AJ (25:17.59)
Right, but what I’m saying is that…

AJ (25:37.953)
Right.

Tara (25:40.414)
this is part of an investigation, but they do not have any rights to tell them where Daphne is or her or her diagnoses. So that’s, that’s, and that’s shitty, but that’s a hundred percent what it is. If I were to say right now, if I were, if I were to be in the hospital right now and I were saying, I do not want my, do not contact my mother, they cannot do that. They cannot.

AJ (25:51.01)
Wait.

AJ (26:08.194)
hospital kit.

Tara (26:10.832)
Neither can a police officer unless I am involved in something. And if they were, then my police officer would not be able to say, well, sure, but they can’t tell her. So if I were involved in something, they wouldn’t be able to be like, she is at this hospital with this diagnosis. Yes.

AJ (26:17.346)
Technically she’s involved in something.

AJ (26:32.524)
Right, no, I get that part. But I’m just questioning whether or not they have the right to, Eve has the right to reach out to her family, even if she says don’t do that. If, if, you’re…

Tara (26:45.406)
She has the right to reach out to her family, but she does not have the right to tell her where she is. Yes.

AJ (26:50.9)
Right, and I get that. So she should have just said, you know, well, we’re just investigating it and, you know, I can’t give you any details.

Tara (26:56.744)
Yeah. And it sucks because obviously like, well, it doesn’t because it all worked out for them and she did tell them, but it sucks because there are situations like that, I’m sure. And reaching out to her family was absolutely what she needed. But those kind of things really do happen. And like this is doctors, especially like doctors, health care workers, they do not have

they are not cleared to reach out to family members if you do not want them to. And a police officer has to follow the HIPAA part of that. So the police officer can be, need to know this, I need to talk to you regarding this circumstance, this person, but the police officer also is not allowed to give that information away.

AJ (27:34.733)
Right.

Tara (27:57.382)
Isn’t that? Yeah, so.

AJ (27:57.602)
Yeah.

Tara (28:02.138)
But that’s, and I was like, that sucks, but it’s literally like against the law. But, you know, who knows? Our information is probably just gonna be available to everyone forever in the future, No.

AJ (28:08.834)
Right.

AJ (28:17.288)
Right. Sorry. the other thing I don’t think this outline says is that the guy stole stuff. He stole. This is a pattern that she notices. He stole. He asked them for the combination to the safe. So he knew they had a safe. he stole specific things in the house.

like knickknacks and whatnot, but he also stole one of Daphne’s dresses. Yeah. And in some shoes or something like that, which he thinks is weird, but the whole circumstances makes her think that this is somebody that they knew. Not necessarily at this point, she doesn’t necessarily think it’s somebody that they, that they’re friends with, but just somebody that they knew somebody from the catering company, somebody from

Tara (28:49.086)
An evening gown. Yeah.

Tara (28:58.878)
.

Tara (29:05.032)
Yes.

AJ (29:16.398)
the rental company, somebody could be one of the guests. She’s not sure at that point, but she’s saying that this is somebody they knew because it’s just somebody that knows too much about them. it was planned. Right.

Tara (29:29.704)
Yeah, can get into their house and all of that. So this is about this time is when Peabody finds the two similar crimes, the vampire in July and the ghoul in November. And so they, she reaches out to the detectives who did, who were in charge of that case. I cannot remember their names off the top of my head.

AJ (29:59.26)
Hang on.

Tara (30:02.832)
Olsen and something else. And Ridgeway? Something? Something-way?

AJ (30:04.341)
Awesome, yeah

AJ (30:10.35)
Sorry.

Treadway. And Olsen, when Eve came in, Olsen was sitting with Baxter.

Tara (30:16.68)
Treadway. Yeah.

Tara (30:26.578)
with Baxter.

AJ (30:29.096)
And it’s pretty much hinted that, you know, they’d worked together on a case, but also worked together in other ways. And also, I’m not sure, but is this the first time we heard Baxter’s first name in this series? She had always called him Baxter.

Tara (30:36.808)
They’ve slept together. They’ve definitely slept together.

AJ (30:55.106)
Because when Olsen leaves, she says, later David.

Tara (30:55.14)
I don’t think so.

Tara (31:02.526)
I don’t think this is the first time you’ve heard this first name.

Tara (31:10.886)
This might be the first time it’s like said out loud in the bullpen in the series, but I’m pretty sure that we’ve heard his name previously. Like entering a crime scene or an interview room or something. But.

AJ (31:31.705)
you think he she said in interview with, you know, Baxter David.

Tara (31:37.232)
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that we’ve heard it before. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure we’ve heard it before.

Tara (31:50.262)
so they go to the morgue, which is Peabody’s favorite. Morris tells Eve that Straza was knocked out or strained and tortured. Then he broke free and a hard blow to the head knocked him unconscious. Then at least 15 minutes later, he received the two killing blows to the head. The SVU detectives meet with them or

AJ (31:56.398)
You

Tara (32:19.262)
while Olsen meets with them, like we said. And they also talk about the missing items and the violence, the way that they’re beaten, all of that stuff. So now we know this is a serial offender. This is his first kill, though. And then at the end of the day, Eve goes home, which is great, because she’s been awake for over a day now.

AJ (32:30.113)
Right

AJ (32:35.81)
Right.

AJ (32:47.522)
Yep.

Tara (32:48.668)
and she walks in, appreciates the new bedroom, and then falls asleep.

AJ (32:53.727)
Ha ha.

Tara (32:54.654)
And Baxter, Gallowhead comes in and sleeps on her butt, which is his favorite place to sleep. And then she has a nightmare, but she’d get a little nap and then she and Roarke have sex. And then they have a delicious meal and they work in Eve’s home office, also recently done and she loves her new command center.

AJ (33:02.017)
Right.

Tara (33:24.327)
and then they go to bed.

So, do you want me to keep moving through this and you just want to jump in when you can? Okay. So, day two, Dr. Mira and Eve developed the profile of the killer. I know that Olsen had said that Mira had done a profile on him already, so now they have more to work with. And they interview more people.

AJ (33:27.992)
There you go.

AJ (33:32.46)
Yeah, just keep going. No, go ahead.

Tara (33:57.538)
And the IKub Agenda has been nominated for seven Academy Awards, which I’m pretty sure it says Dallas finds out. I was like, I’m pretty sure Peabody tells her because Peabody is.

AJ (34:11.854)
Let’s see

Tara (34:12.958)
because she doesn’t see Nadine in this book. She’s mentioned…

AJ (34:28.75)
I’m looking at it.

AJ (34:37.608)
let’s see.

AJ (34:48.44)
Who is she talking to here? Hang on.

AJ (34:58.008)
Cause she’s talking to somebody.

AJ (35:04.989)
no, she’s talking to Kyle.

Tara (35:07.006)
That’s right. It’s when they’re when they go and they meet our new BFF Kyle that guy sucks ha ha

AJ (35:14.316)
Yeah, because he says, we put in a bid on the ICO project and she says, sorry, what? Nadine first book we tried to get the rights to it, but it was above our reach. Congrats on the Oscar noms. And Eve’s like, okay. Which is what even. Okay.

Tara (35:35.047)
She’s like, which is Eve. Sure.

AJ (35:38.7)
They announced them this morning, it’s up for seven Oscars. Best actress, best supporting actor, best director, best adapted screenplay, best editing, best sound, and the holy grail, best picture. You didn’t hear? And she’s like, I’m a cop, Mr. Knightley.

AJ (35:59.896)
But Eve, know, cops here, that kind of thing too.

Tara (36:06.11)
That’s hilarious. I was like, that’s right. was him. He sucks.

AJ (36:06.67)
So.

Yeah.

Tara (36:17.15)
else did they go?

AJ (36:20.192)
Hang on a sec.

AJ (37:00.632)
Sorry, my nose was running. Yeah. Anyway, what were you gonna ask?

Tara (37:01.79)
You all right? it’s okay.

Tara (37:07.77)
I don’t remember, but that’s okay because I was… They also make the connection from that art gala or something, right? Wasn’t it like an art gala that they got all of the victims went to?

AJ (37:31.65)
Was that?

Tara (37:33.96)
That’s after she talks to…

AJ (37:38.466)
Yeah, see this is why…

Tara (37:39.99)
I think she talks to like, I think she talks to like the Lori and Ira, is that their names? Or Rosa and I, which one is Lori, Rosa, I don’t remember one’s name.

AJ (37:47.345)
Right, yeah.

Tara (37:55.848)
But after she talks to the other victims, she makes the connection that they all attended this gala.

AJ (37:55.917)
Yeah.

AJ (38:05.71)
um going back to her figure here finding out about the Oscar nomination sorry um I just thought this is funny you know so she leaves

AJ (38:21.482)
And.

AJ (38:28.12)
She wrote down on the elevator ignoring other passengers who seemed to be buzzed on Oscar talk until one of the women stared at her. The woman’s eyes popped, my god, you’re Marlo Dern. And Eve’s like, no I’m not. Obviously undeterred, the woman continued to chatter on while taking in her rhino-sized bag, I’m such a fan, I just have to have a picture with you. I’m not Marlo Dern.

The link already in hand, the woman frowned at her. Are you sure? Absolutely. You could so be her stand-in for the Eiko agenda. I mean, you look just like her Eve Dallas character. Are you her stand-in? No. Eve escaped the elevator, took another down to the garage. this is, yeah, this is the start of, really the start of her being, you know.

Tara (39:23.664)
It’s all the time dealing with this shit.

AJ (39:26.542)
Yeah, yeah. I just think it’s funny.

Tara (39:31.546)
It’s so funny, I forgot about that. my God.

AJ (39:36.75)
Poor Eve. But you know what, here’s the, so this is something that happened similar with me back in the day when I was in high school. Okay. Senior in high school and my younger brother was not a senior. I can’t, I can’t remember. He was a sophomore, I think.

Tara (39:40.798)
Poor Eve.

AJ (40:05.696)
Anyway, so I had a car and I would drive him and his best friend, you know, and myself to and from school. And often driving back from school, we would stop at like 7-eleven and get a Coke and candy bar or whatever. We decided, you know, chips or whatever.

so this particular day we stopped and myself and my brother’s best friend was in the front seat passenger seat. we get out and my brother’s like, I don’t want anything. I think I’m just going to stay in the car. And I was like, okay. So I got out and there’s these two girls standing in front of the seven 11 in front of my car.

So I get out and start to go past them and they were like, hey. And I looked over and they’re pointing at my brother in the car and going, is that Robbie Benson? And I was like, no.

No.

And I just went on, but I thought it was so funny. My brother did kind of look like Robbie Benson, so, you know, in his younger days.

Tara (41:19.006)
Amazing.

Tara (41:26.142)
That’s amazing. I love that.

AJ (41:27.714)
but Robbie Benson much older.

Tara (41:34.18)
my god, I love that. That’s right, then there’s like a blizzard. Eve… Eve is working from home. She sends everyone else home.

AJ (41:48.094)
Right.

Tara (41:48.946)
Like several times in this book, she tells Peabody to like take a cab and Peabody’s like, yeah, no, I’m going to take the subway. It’ll be faster.

AJ (41:56.288)
Right? Yeah, and that’s for all the people that are always like, Peabody’s always mooching off of Eve.

Tara (42:04.348)
Nope. So stupid.

AJ (42:07.68)
Yeah, and even Rorick says, I can call you a, you know, I can get a car for you, whatever.

Tara (42:14.878)
yeah, yeah, this is where they look at the… that evening she looks at the list of people who attended the gala and tries to like basically pull out all the people who she thinks are potential victims. And they watch the Avengers.

AJ (42:15.073)
And she’s like, no.

AJ (42:31.991)
Right.

AJ (42:37.165)
Yeah.

Tara (42:38.066)
Which I have never seen the Avengers, so Eve is doing better than me. And that’s saying something, because Eve doesn’t see shit.

AJ (42:42.419)
Hahaha

AJ (42:46.574)
Well, she does now because Roarke makes her watch things.

Tara (42:53.758)
So this, so day three, Roarke gets Eve a really fancy all-terrain vehicle so she can get downtown.

AJ (43:04.791)
Well, so day three, hang on a second, something else. This timeline is very sparse.

Tara (43:12.838)
It is very sparse. Still appreciate having it.

AJ (43:16.492)
Yes.

especially on days like this where…

AJ (43:42.4)
there’s one thing that I…

marked here and that was when, this the same night?

AJ (43:59.628)
before they have sex or as they’re having sex or they’re about to have sex or whatever. Eve is saying, and there it was, she thought the real deal, her place, her man, her heart, all right here. Wherever she’d been, whatever brutal the beginnings, however lost, however broken she’d once been, she found this. And this was worth every painful, bleeding step of the journey.

I just thought, that’s so nice.

Tara (44:31.114)
that is really nice.

AJ (44:33.262)
Um, hang on a second. But that wasn’t what I was gonna… Let’s see.

Tara (44:38.206)
You

AJ (44:46.44)
so she woke up, they watched the Avengers.

AJ (44:58.905)
This is…

This is when they had that exchange. He said we should watch the Avengers. She was like, who are the Avengers? Superheroes. She says superheroes and he says exactly Iron Man, for instance. And she says like Cal Ripken, Ripken Jr. And he says, sorry.

And she says, ha, got you on that one. Cal Ripken, Iron Man Ripken, late 20th century baseball player, Baltimore. And he says, you often amaze me. Well, it’s baseball. Iron Man, but not like Ripken. Her eyes narrowed. Is this porn? It isn’t, Iron Man sounds suspicious to me. What are the others?

And he says, there’s Thor, the Hulk, he began, sounds like porn. So.

Anyway, so they watch that, right? And then Eve wakes up and she had a weird dream and he’s like about, and she says, the Avengers, that jerk Loki and the weird ass army. I’m trying to help them when I see this devil grab this bystander. Why are bystanders always running, always standing by when they should be running and hiding somewhere?

Tara (46:10.398)
Yeah.

AJ (46:34.134)
So she tells him about this weird, you know, dream that she had and she tries to save the woman to catch the killer or, you know, trying to keep New York from becoming a big pile of rubble. And I woke up and Roark says, they can make an excellent vid if they could record your subconscious.

Tara (46:35.619)
Eve.

AJ (47:00.332)
And she says, they had shwarma, the Avengers, after the whole battle of New York. I did an interview yesterday in an apartment over a shwarma place. Just weird, I need coffee. So.

AJ (47:17.518)
I just thought that was funny.

Tara (47:21.558)
I I love when Eve does creeps. she’s… I know people are like, why does she think this way? Why does she whatever? I was like, sometimes she like really makes you go, well, she’s not wrong.

AJ (47:33.666)
Yeah. Well, I appreciate the dreams that where it’s not like, gory or her revisiting her childhood. But it’s a dream where, you know, obviously some it’s all mixed together, they watched the Avengers and she’s thinking about this case. And so it kind of all blended together to make this one, you know, weird dream.

Tara (47:46.664)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (48:00.398)
And the other thing I really like is that apparently this is where her closet got an upgrade.

because she’s like, you know, intimidated by the closet.

AJ (48:22.753)
and

AJ (48:27.31)
I don’t know if they talk about it here, but…

AJ (48:34.254)
She doesn’t, you know, she’s intimidated by the closet and she didn’t want to use the closet computer because she could damn well dress herself. Especially since she was going for black, straight black and warm. She grabbed trousers, a sweater, a jacket, and because she’d likely be trudging through snow, black boots that rose to her knees.

Tara (48:47.326)
Yeah.

AJ (48:59.33)
When she stepped out, Roarke arched an eyebrow. Black Widow couldn’t look more dangerous or alluring. She could handle herself. See that you handle my any bad guys who come at my cup. And then she says, Dallas Smash.

Tara (49:15.806)
you remember the movie.

Good job, Eve.

AJ (49:21.708)
Yeah.

AJ (49:26.082)
So yeah, he gets her the all-terrain and then she goes to work.

Tara (49:30.36)
to central and

Tara (49:38.718)
Sorry, I was reading. She contacts Peabody and she’s like, can you get into Central? And she’s like, yeah, this up we should be running. And then she says, it’s pretty out here. Girl, girl, it’s disgusting and snowy. Go to work.

AJ (49:51.221)
Yeah.

AJ (49:55.476)
Yeah, several times in this book, she’s she, you know, like when she interviews the woman who had an apartment over the swarm replace. And then Peabody, you know, rings the doorbell and Eve tells the moon, tell her I’ll be right down. And so she, you know, Eve went down and as she came out, Peabody’s like looking up at the sky and smiling like, my gosh, it’s so pretty.

Tara (50:06.387)
Yeah.

Tara (50:26.376)
She’s so funny. I mean, she’s not wrong. Snow can be really pretty. I feel like, you know, Peabody’s probably a little bit more of an optimist than the rest of us, so.

AJ (50:26.551)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

AJ (50:32.16)
Yeah.

AJ (50:38.605)
Right.

Tara (50:42.814)
So let’s see. She runs into Baxter and he tells her about the case that he and True Heart picked up and wrapped already. And then…

Let’s see. She splits up the potential targets among everyone who’s available to interview and warn. And then she gets the call from dispatch that Mikko and Xavier Carver, who were found dead, they were tortured more extensively than before. Mikko was strangled and his throat was cut and they were on the potential target list.

I remember them having that conversation like, what if we had gone this way instead of this way, whatever, and I’m like, you weren’t gonna… you can’t know.

AJ (51:38.338)
Yeah, you can’t know.

Tara (51:45.318)
So after talking to Morris for preliminary findings, Peabody notified the victim’s families. And then…

The detectives put together a short list of possible targets to have a nice little meeting with all of the detectives who are involved at this point. And then specifically listing the couples who buzz during their interviews and warnings. Several of the women were being harassed by a man, including a Phantom of the Opera at various charity functions. Other women say that underwear disappeared from their bedrooms.

The detectives agree that the harassment and break-ins is how he controls himself between attacks. And then they start building a list of suspects based on their and Mira’s evaluations using the guest and staff list from the gala.

And then Rosa Patrick comes into Cop Central with Kyle Knightley, her husband’s business partner and cousin, because she receives a sick text message from the rapist slash killer. Dallas thinks Rosa was the first and is the most important of the victims. And she and McNab trace the link.

Tara (53:10.332)
down to a recycler and it got destroyed minutes before they got there and she’s super sus at the timing, which makes sense. Let’s see.

AJ (53:17.558)
Right.

Tara (53:28.347)
they go to…

Tara (53:33.79)
trying to think of some of these places that they went to. I liked when they visited…

Tara (53:45.982)
Toiola Page and Gray Burrows and it’s like her little sister Gemma is just there being an obnoxious teenager and that’s pretty fun.

AJ (53:58.583)
Yeah.

Tara (54:06.622)
I just thought that was fun. Anyway, so Eva’s worried that the Mirrors might be targeted. So Roarke increases their security and we know that Mavis and Leonardo also fit the profile, but they’re out of town. Then she goes home and cries on Roarke’s shoulder, which is very therapeutic. That’s what it says.

AJ (54:29.474)
Does she?

AJ (54:38.562)
Yeah, that’s one thing I did read on this timeline. Does she do that?

Tara (54:44.934)
I felt like she cries later in the book.

Tara (54:50.259)
What?

AJ (54:52.686)
This timeline like skips so much.

AJ (55:07.05)
It would be better if…

AJ (55:17.204)
It had, was by chapter, you know.

Tara (55:20.946)
Yeah.

Tara (55:29.982)
But she does ask Roarke how Andiran, however you say it, the youth shelter is coming along. That does happen. She does talk to him about his job. And then they keep working on the suspect list.

AJ (55:39.499)
Yeah.

Tara (55:55.174)
And then Eve is like, this is the first that highlights all the that’s all the buttons for her. Kyle Knightley, she believes he had a thing for his aunt, who is Neville Patrick’s mother. Neville and his wife, Rosa, were his first assault and robbed victims, and he is punishing his aunt and uncle with every rape and torture. He has the acting background and electronics ability to, in addition to fitting near his personality profile.

She says I can’t prove it yet, but I will.

Tara (56:29.264)
So of course she’s also super sus of the fact that he showed up with Rosa after she got that threatening text.

AJ (56:39.863)
Yeah.

AJ (56:43.798)
Sorry, I’m trying to look up.

AJ (56:52.916)
Why she cried.

Tara (56:55.614)
It’s

AJ (56:59.438)
because I feel like that’s probably something that we should talk about.

Tara (57:07.71)
I agree.

Tara (57:14.29)
hard to find in this book.

AJ (57:15.554)
So she comes in and he’s on the phone.

Tara (57:20.67)
What chapter is this?

AJ (57:26.958)
18.

Tara (57:29.598)
Thank you.

AJ (57:34.848)
I think she had just finished checking in on Daphne again.

Tara (57:42.334)
Japanese.

AJ (57:47.447)
and

AJ (57:52.43)
You know, the other thing we’re not talking about is her finding out that Daphne’s husband was an ass that abused her horribly.

Tara (58:03.748)
my god, everyone is like, this guy sucks. But no one wanted to ever say it because he was a big important doctor.

AJ (58:09.26)
Well, yeah, he was a bad, you know, yeah. the woman that you talked to that was the, she was, she’s a, what is she specifically? She, she organizes things or she’s a personal assistant. The woman that lived, see, this is why, yeah, this, this timeline is bad. The woman that lists, that lived above the, Schwarm replace.

Tara (58:25.864)
Which woman?

Tara (58:32.028)
Which woman?

Tara (58:40.211)
yeah, what was her relation to all this?

AJ (58:45.782)
I don’t know, but yeah.

She planned.

The wedding, she planned the wedding for…

Tara (58:56.744)
That’s right.

AJ (58:57.878)
And she also, she works for somebody. She works for the first victim. Is that the case?

Tara (59:10.642)
Yes, I think it was the first

AJ (59:10.926)
you

AJ (59:19.246)
Hang on a sec, I need to take another break.

AJ (01:00:07.374)
Sorry about that. Okay.

AJ (01:00:12.8)
So which?

Tara (01:00:24.826)
Lillia Lillia dominant

AJ (01:00:29.005)
Is that her?

Tara (01:00:30.278)
Yeah, she works for Lori and Ira. Yeah.

AJ (01:00:35.626)
Right. Okay.

Tara (01:00:39.921)
The border collie. They called her the border collie.

AJ (01:00:42.774)
Right.

AJ (01:00:53.398)
So, but she was saying that, didn’t she like, she had to do with their, she was helping her friend out with their wedding. Isn’t that correct?

Tara (01:01:06.876)
Yes, she helped out at the Straza wedding. Yeah.

AJ (01:01:08.622)
Anthony Straza, yeah. And she said that Daphne was amazing, but that Anthony was, they called him Grumzilla or Dr. Dictator.

Tara (01:01:21.554)
Yeah, he was like insane about this wedding.

AJ (01:01:24.11)
Right. So Eve is already suspecting that he’s been abusive. And, um, she had gone to visit Daphne and Daphne was talking about how she, you know, doesn’t know where to go. She obviously doesn’t want to go back to the house, but she doesn’t have any other place to go. you know,

Eva saying I can bring you, you know, can have somebody bring you things from the house, like clothes and stuff. And, you know, she’s just not sure. And like, she doesn’t know how she’s going to pay the hospital bill and all of that. And, you know, it’s just all kind of.

AJ (01:02:10.19)
And then this is when her sister comes in, who apparently she’s not supposed to come. Right. So her sister came in and.

Tara (01:02:17.47)
I’m just saying that that would be against HIPAA violations.

AJ (01:02:33.534)
know, Daphne’s like, no, you can’t be here because he, he, it doesn’t really say, but it’s obvious that he like threatened her family.

Tara (01:02:42.514)
Yeah, and he.

basically made her cut all ties with them.

AJ (01:02:48.82)
Yeah, so that was very emotional, I think. And so…

We go from that.

AJ (01:03:07.15)
to

AJ (01:03:17.006)
AJ (01:03:30.37)
So, and so then they start talking about how Rorke went and added some more security to the Mira’s house.

Tara (01:03:42.535)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (01:03:46.882)
She says, you know, sorry, I added more stuff to your day. And he says, why? It all gets done, doesn’t it? Dennis was a bit baffled and more than fascinated with the new toys I added to their system. Armira was initially annoyed that you’d add stuff to my day on your own, but she came around.

And he says, and you lieutenant he continued as he went to her skimming a finger down the dent in her chin, look tired. And she says, it’s not that kind of tired. She surprised them both when he drew her in for a kiss by clinging to him by the tears that spilled. There now what is it? And she says, I can’t explain.

Tara (01:04:10.569)
Ahem.

AJ (01:04:37.898)
I can’t just hang on okay just hang on and so he holds her for a little while and

AJ (01:04:54.616)
He says, tell me how I can help. And she says, if I’d caught this case three years ago, February three years ago, right before you, I think it would have broken me. I think it might have been the end of me. Now it’s just, maybe it bruises some, it won’t break me. It won’t because you hang on when I have to let go.

AJ (01:05:21.048)
So.

Tara (01:05:23.038)
So she does cry.

AJ (01:05:24.748)
So she does cry on his shoulder.

But yeah, mean, it’s like we said at the beginning, know, this is triggering her in a lot of different ways. So.

Tara (01:05:43.71)
which is understandable.

AJ (01:05:43.896)
She is, you know, seeing Daphne at the beginning and how she was and then seeing her being so vulnerable and that her husband was, you know, an abusive a-hole. I think Eve found out that like not only was he an abusive a-hole, but he made her sign a prenup. Which the…

Tara (01:06:08.453)
my god, yeah.

AJ (01:06:12.066)
The lawyer didn’t give her any details on, but made it pretty clear that the husband didn’t really want her to have anything when he died or if he died. He was going to leave everything to the hospital because, you know, to build a wing that they would name after him.

And, so she’s not sure where any money is going to come from. And at a certain point she and Roarke talk about that. And she asked Roarke, you know, if you had to guess, you know, what do you think that house could sell for? And he said something like 15 million or whatever. And she’s like, you know, that the lawyer made it clear that.

She couldn’t, for whatever reason, she couldn’t sell the house just based on how the whole legal stuff was laid out.

Tara (01:07:11.966)
It wasn’t completely paid off yet either.

AJ (01:07:17.686)
Right, and he had not left her any money in a truss to help her pay for that?

So, he’s a, sorry, he’s a piece of shit, yes.

Tara (01:07:25.054)
piece of shit.

Tara (01:07:31.294)
Third piece of shit.

AJ (01:07:32.918)
So, you know, Roarke is saying, or she’s saying…

AJ (01:07:44.782)
Let’s hang on a second. Eve tells him it took brutality to give her that chance. It took brutality to give me mine. Fighting that understanding.

AJ (01:08:01.868)
that mirror I see when I look at her is exhausting. And he says, why would you fight it? And she says, I have to be objective to do the job. If I don’t do the job, do it right. Another couple can end up on that board.

Darling Eve, he stroked her hair, pressed his lips to it. It’s the blend of your objectivity, observations, instincts, and your empathy for the victim that makes you what you are. It’s that very blend that will lead you to the answers, lead you to them. And she says, I hope to Christ you’re right because they’re leading me in a couple of directions, but they’re leading me. So yeah, she’s feeling all the feels.

Tara (01:08:49.224)
Yeah, she is.

AJ (01:08:51.06)
And here’s the other thing.

AJ (01:09:05.208)
He shifted, pulled out a little case, pulled a little case out of his pocket, flipped it open, take a blocker.

AJ (01:09:17.724)
AJ (01:09:21.614)
He had something that was wrapped in silver paper. And he says, I think this is the right time. She looked at the box at him. Come on, wasn’t it just Christmas? No, and this is something like the blocker I think you could have used because I think this is Valentine’s Day. She had some rants about Valentine’s Day.

Tara (01:09:33.758)
you

Tara (01:09:44.766)
Yes, it’s Valentine’s Day.

AJ (01:09:47.38)
And why would people go out for Valentine’s Day that you just stay in? And Peabody was like, but it’s nice to go out first and then stay in. And she’s like, yeah, but you could just stay in. Because Peabody’s like, it’s nice to go out. And then when you come back, have like sex after you’ve gone out or something like that. And Eve’s like, yeah, but if you don’t go out, you could have more sex. Which technically, she’s correct.

Tara (01:09:50.589)
you

Tara (01:10:11.374)
I mean… She’s correct.

AJ (01:10:15.914)
so he’s, Roarke says, this is something like the blocker I think you could use at this moment. She could hardly bitch at him when she just blubbered all over him. So she took the box, lifted the wrapped lid and nearly blubbered again when she saw the little music box. When she looked at him, just looked at him with her exhausted eyes stunned and filled with emotion, Roarke knew he had chosen well.

She lifted out a young girl’s music box, not a fancy important one, just a sweet little white box with some gold swirls and the dancer twirling on one leg, arms curved overhead as the music played. It’s a common thing, Roarke began. No, it’s not. It’s not. Shut up a minute. She fought back tears, even if they were hot with gratitude full of the miracle that she had someone who loved her just this much.

It’s not common, she managed. It’s beyond special. Not my style, right? Not cop style, but… And he says, even when I bought it, I wasn’t sure if it was for you or for me. For us then, it made you sad when I told you about it. You could have bought something slick or fancy or glittery, but you knew it wouldn’t be right. It would have looked important, but it wouldn’t be special.

You took some ugly little memory and you turned it into love. I’ll never, I can’t tell you. What’s that song? A 20th century classic, Tiny Dancer. I feel like she had told him something about her mom had a music box or something.

Tara (01:12:09.256)
think that, didn’t she say that her father had given it to her and then like broken it or something? Like it was part of his ways of manipulating her when she was younger.

AJ (01:12:27.79)
Yeah, I tell them.

Tara (01:12:29.476)
I mean it’s in this book.

Isn’t it?

AJ (01:12:35.852)
I have no idea, see, I guess I didn’t read the

Tara (01:12:37.062)
It’s been a really long time since I’ve read an in-depth book, so…

AJ (01:12:47.736)
Let’s see.

AJ (01:13:21.176)
Sorry.

Tara (01:13:22.984)
Now I’m looking for things.

AJ (01:13:41.228)
So she’s talking about.

AJ (01:13:48.767)
they, I don’t know what they’re talking about specifically, the whole case or whatever.

And,

AJ (01:14:04.094)
Eve says it really doesn’t have anything to do with the case. It has to do with those echoes you spoke of. Did he apologize when he first hit you? She didn’t have to ask who. Richard Troy, and yes, the echoes grew louder, grew longer with each step she took into the investigation. I honestly don’t remember the first time he hit me. Couldn’t say whether it’s buried or blurred.

if I was just too young to retain it, but I remember how he sometimes brought me something, some toy. He’d say things like, had to be good, had to do as I was told, always. So he wouldn’t have to punish me. Then he’d take it away or break it because he said I’d done something wrong. And she asked him, did Patrick Roark do that with you? And he says, he didn’t know.

No toys or rewards, neglect was his style, followed by beatings.

And he says, what sort of toys did he bring you?

And she says, the only one I clearly remember probably because I really liked it was this little music box thing with this ballet girl inside who twirled around when you opened it. Sometimes if I couldn’t sleep, I’d open it up, listen to it, watch the girl sort of, I guess, imagine being happy enough to twirl around. And one night he came in raging, busted it to pieces, wailed on me pretty good.

AJ (01:15:38.964)
And because he could see it so well, the young trapped girl dreaming then brutalized, it broke his heart, simply shattered. So yeah, they talked about it earlier, right before they watched the Avengers.

AJ (01:15:59.768)
So clearly I needed to pay more attention when I read this book.

Tara (01:16:00.744)
Yeah.

Tara (01:16:04.299)
Well, I mean, I didn’t remember the details of that. just remember it. was like, I think that that was part of his manipulation tactics with her.

AJ (01:16:11.329)
Right.

Tara (01:16:16.723)
So.

Well, we can go on to day four. And because it does start with a delightful morning briefing at home with Rio and Peabody and McNabb and Baxter and Trueheart and Olsen and Treadway and Dr. Mira. So.

AJ (01:16:23.96)
Sure.

AJ (01:16:29.658)
Ha.

AJ (01:16:37.162)
And this is the first time they’ve seen her new office setting. And they were very excited.

Tara (01:16:40.358)
Yes. Yeah. And McNabb was like so fucking excited. He like goes behind your desk with her and he is just like checking everything out. So. And Rio gets them the warrant and so then they go to Kyle’s house. They they have a plan for like. Who’s going to his house and who’s going to his office if necessary, but.

AJ (01:16:45.24)
Haha.

AJ (01:16:50.605)
Yeah.

Tara (01:17:08.818)
He ends up being there, so they go to his house.

AJ (01:17:11.63)
So I don’t think we talked about or this outline doesn’t talk about it, the reason why it was him or.

what they figured out.

Tara (01:17:23.774)
It, they talked about how he

was he had the thing for his aunt and then Rosa.

AJ (01:17:39.298)
Because Rosa reminded him of his aunt. And, like, he felt like he saw her first, but she instead went for his cousin.

Tara (01:17:39.55)
but it’s very brief of his aunt, yes.

Tara (01:17:49.342)
Yes, very much the I saw her first grossness

AJ (01:17:53.782)
Right. Yeah.

Tara (01:17:57.862)
Yeah, and he talks, they talk a little more about it when they arrest him.

AJ (01:18:05.6)
Yeah, so he was kind of recreating this because he did he the first the first crime was his actual cousin and Rosa. Because he was saying, you know, we have to figure out why they were the first, because it seemed like, you know, the timeline, they were the first. And so that’s what she eventually figures out that Rosa.

Tara (01:18:16.574)
Mm-hmm.

AJ (01:18:30.144)
reminded him of his aunt, that he wanted her but his cousin got her first, or you know, she went for his cousin and not him. And so that’s what they figure out and work back from there.

Tara (01:18:39.58)
Yeah.

Tara (01:18:51.902)
Yeah, so they figure that out and then Eve gets the search warrant and they go to his house. And of course he resists arrest and Eve makes sure that he back answer. And that way she can arrest him for assaulting an officer. That’s like her favorite trick in the book, you know? Get him to.

AJ (01:19:13.838)
Right. And then they find like a they had speculated that there he might be stealing dresses because he might have a droid that he would put the dresses on and

Tara (01:19:27.752)
They find all of that stuff. Well, so yeah, they find all this stuff and then they find the droid and they like turn the droid on and she was like, yes, Kyle, what can I do for you? And she’s still wearing, I think Miko’s dress.

AJ (01:19:30.295)
Right.

AJ (01:19:34.529)
Right.

Tara (01:19:53.279)
And then.

AJ (01:19:58.444)
Was she wearing Miko’s dress?

Tara (01:20:01.214)
She’s wearing, it’s either Miko’s dress or Daphne’s. I wanna say she’s still wearing one of their dresses. Anyway.

Tara (01:20:16.387)
And so they arrest him because he sucks.

AJ (01:20:21.271)
Right.

Tara (01:20:24.562)
And

She, you know, sends a McNabb to get all the electronic stuff. And she like takes her time. She’s like, send him down town. She’s just like, no rush to take care of this guy. And it says here, there’s so much evidence for the lab and E division, including audio and visual recordings.

AJ (01:20:49.611)
Right.

Tara (01:20:58.152)
from cameras he had planted in the houses of his victims and future victims. So yeah, so he’d also like had cameras in their houses. Creep.

AJ (01:21:07.372)
Yeah, that’s gross.

Tara (01:21:09.886)
And then they interview him. It’s even Peabody and Peabody doesn’t have to play good cop. So she’s very pleased about that. And he clearly has not told his lawyer everything. So it starts off on that like little dance of, know, the lawyer being like, you can’t do this, blah, blah, blah. And because he can’t make everything go away, the lawyer is fired.

AJ (01:21:19.478)
Heh.

Tara (01:21:40.67)
And Kyle tries to bribe Eve and Peabody. And Eve gets him to eventually talk, like, go through it in more detail. He’s pretty resistant at first, but then she, like, goads him with being like, you know, Neville saw Rosa, you know, Neville got Rosa and you saw her first.

AJ (01:21:56.376)
Right.

Tara (01:22:11.129)
She kind of plays. She kind of plays. I know that I know that in the book, Peabody was like, you played good cop. And I was like, I know that was good cop. That was just Eve being like, I just want to get this shit out of the sky. But. But, yeah, they they get him to. Well, it’s really Eve. Eve gets him to.

AJ (01:22:30.922)
Ha!

Tara (01:22:38.78)
to share a lot of detail that she already knew, getting on record, of course, is important. Also, I feel bad for this guy’s lawyer. Like, not really bad, just a little bad.

AJ (01:22:45.516)
Right.

AJ (01:22:51.581)
haha

Tara (01:22:57.52)
Also, I’m not sure what lawyer is like, yes, I’m going to defend these people. But to be fair, since he didn’t know everything about what had happened, that’s why I feel a little bit bad about it.

AJ (01:23:09.742)
Yeah, I always think about that about, you know, defense lawyers,

Tara (01:23:13.106)
Right? What do they know? I would imagine the defense lawyers just have to like know how to play the system and like all of those little arbitrary rules that that cops are always worried like in the stories, whatever, he was worried about stuff getting not being handled because of circumstantial evidence or whatever, things like that. Like they have to be just good at playing.

AJ (01:23:36.984)
Right.

Tara (01:23:41.234)
that kind of game and knowing that they can pull out the stops because it’s innocent until proven guilty, you know? So I don’t know. I couldn’t do it.

AJ (01:23:50.657)
Right.

Yeah, I couldn’t either.

Tara (01:23:55.102)
So, so they let everyone know that this guy’s locked up and they send Olsen and Treadway to tell the original two sets of victims. And then Eve goes to talk to Daphne Straza and she brings Roarke because he found her with him, with her, and Mira because she could use Mira.

And when they get there, Tish is there.

And it says here that, now here’s the thing is that it says here, they know from Kyle’s recordings that Anthony Estraza habitually imprisoned, abused, battered and raped his wife with threats to her and family if she told. I feel like they just know that. Kyle’s recordings reiterate that, but they know that he did all this, that he threatened his wife and stuff.

AJ (01:24:57.496)
Well, it’s important though to have the visual.

Tara (01:24:59.932)
The visual, yeah. No, that’s like the, you know, but also she’s like, but I did know that. Thank you for the proof. And then what had happened was that Anthony actually had tried to kill her after Kyle assaulted her and twist, she kills him in self-defense. So Kyle did not kill Dr. Straza.

AJ (01:25:19.309)
Right.

Tara (01:25:27.73)
Daphne killed her husband in self-defense and I had forgotten this. I had forgotten and I was like, yeah, good twist.

AJ (01:25:27.917)
Right.

AJ (01:25:33.047)
Right, yeah.

AJ (01:25:39.746)
Yeah, but it was like she was, you know, was clear when you’ve talked to her about it later that she was in shock. Well, she was shocked.

Tara (01:25:47.688)
She was in shock and she didn’t know what was going on and there was… Well, was because, you know, Kyle had been the devil and then she like didn’t know who was coming at her and there were two devils and Anthony was a devil and it was just very like very clearly this woman was so traumatized and so incredibly like out of it that she had no idea what was happening.

AJ (01:26:15.788)
Right.

Tara (01:26:16.99)
And obviously at some point she realized what she had done. But Eve was busy catching Kyle, so.

AJ (01:26:29.983)
Right.

Well, I don’t know if she realized it or… Well, obviously she did.

Tara (01:26:35.834)
Or she realizes that at some point she must have. But we don’t get really a timeline on when she would have realized it. But thinking about how obviously hovering over this whole book is the suppressed memories that Eve has from her, from the abuse that her father, you know, from her father. And I think that this was definitely a suppressed part of it.

And I think that she truly didn’t know what was going on.

AJ (01:27:10.85)
Yeah, I mean, the circumstances of this was a lot more closely related to what Eve went through than we had originally thought. Eve was also very traumatized and lashed out in self-protection and ended up killing her father and it’s kind of the same thing with Daphne.

Tara (01:27:36.648)
Yeah.

AJ (01:27:40.866)
But again, you know, the visual was important because, you know, Daphne clearly, you know, she is gonna have to face some, you know.

some legal thing for this and Eve knows it and Eve, you know, they need that visual confirmation that Daphne was in fact abused by her husband routinely.

Tara (01:28:01.448)
Yeah.

Tara (01:28:10.738)
Well, and Daphne is having difficulties saying that out loud because of how much he essentially fucked up her brain around this. Like, it’s not even just that she’s not in denial. She truly believes, like he brainwashed her into believing that this was, you know, that what he was doing was right and she was wrong and she was bad and she did all this stuff wrong and she deserves it.

AJ (01:28:21.495)
Right.

AJ (01:28:38.732)
Right. Right.

Tara (01:28:40.05)
There is there’s so much mental unwellness here. so, yeah. This is what I had forgotten. I had literally forgotten that. That’s how this book ended. I’d forgotten that she had been the one that killed him and I felt even better. I was like, yeah, fuck that guy.

AJ (01:28:44.045)
Yes.

AJ (01:28:58.637)
Yeah.

Tara (01:29:06.28)
Well, and here’s the thing is that no, Kyle didn’t kill him, but he clearly thought he did.

AJ (01:29:15.982)
Yeah.

Tara (01:29:17.692)
because he doesn’t say I didn’t kill him and he’s continuing to escalate when he attacks the other couple. So…

two terrible people getting things that they deserve.

AJ (01:29:36.597)
Exactly.

AJ (01:29:41.454)
So is that the end or?

Tara (01:29:42.398)
So yeah, oh, and yeah, and then even when I go home, I take a walk in the cold and snow for a little while because the snow is pretty.

Tara (01:29:53.158)
And Eve could use a walk, apparently.

AJ (01:29:56.717)
Okay.

Tara (01:29:58.59)
So yeah, that is always.

AJ (01:30:00.334)
You could definitely use a walk.

AJ (01:30:05.78)
yeah, so I guess, do you have commendations?

Tara (01:30:25.186)
actually gonna say

Tara (01:30:33.214)
I’m actually going say Dr. Noble, and I know that I had a little medical information rant. It’s not a medical rant earlier. That doesn’t take away from the fact that he really is very, like, he’s really on top of it as a doctor. And I think a lot of people think that doctors like that don’t exist. And what I will tell you is that doctors like that do exist.

I think fictionally we see a lot of doctors doing things that nurses, techs, etc. do and sometimes people get a little hung up on that. that people who write, like the writers have have fictionally given doctors all of this credit that they didn’t earn. And to be fair, sure, that happens a lot in fiction, not just here.

AJ (01:31:15.723)
Right.

Tara (01:31:32.808)
But it’s also good to remember that these doctors are doing amazing work and Dr. Noble has been on top of this and whether or not I agree with what he and Eve did, which, PS, I do. I do agree with them doing it. I’m just saying that, unfortunately, it would be against the law. I just think that he is very proactive and he is very devoted to

this patient and probably others. You know, I feel like all of his patients, he’s just very devoted to. And so I don’t know, I just was really feeling like a good job him. And also I wanted to give a shout out to doctors who are like that.

AJ (01:32:19.841)
Right.

AJ (01:32:24.276)
Okay, so who am I giving mine to?

AJ (01:32:32.606)
I don’t remember the name. I wanted to give mine to the lawyer that they talked to.

Tara (01:32:44.646)
wife, something what, Randall wife?

Tara (01:32:52.798)
Are you talking about her lawyer or his straws as lawyer?

AJ (01:32:57.504)
Yeah.

Tara (01:32:58.492)
Yeah, it’s a random white, Randall Weiss.

AJ (01:33:06.158)
Mostly because, you know, he, I think he sees that he knew the guy was a dick. And he being his lawyer kind of knows what the paperwork says, obviously, but you know, still made it clear to Eve, like what that paperwork entailed and basically told Eve, like you don’t tell her that she didn’t have to worry about anything that will, you know,

Tara (01:33:14.846)
Right.

AJ (01:33:35.938)
that this office will give her whatever financial support she needs. you know, that’s going to be important later on for her. She’s going to need somebody in her corner, especially a lawyer. Because I feel like she’ll probably want to, you know, contest the will.

Tara (01:33:49.758)
Yeah.

Tara (01:34:04.008)
Yeah, I agree. think that’s, I think that that’s a really great one too. Like, there are actually a lot of really fantastic people. I think we both were like, let’s kind of go outside of our normal. Because like I was also thinking of like the woman who

AJ (01:34:18.038)
Yeah.

Tara (01:34:25.478)
raised Miko, who found Miko, mate or whatever she is. yeah, there’s a lot of people doing a lot of good work while terrible people are getting away with shit.

AJ (01:34:28.013)
Right.

Tara (01:34:42.619)
So.

AJ (01:34:43.914)
And I also thought it was funny that, you know, I mean, they were talking about that. She talked about that with the lawyer and the lawyers like I advised her to get a lawyer and have her lawyer look over all of this paperwork and she didn’t do that. And then later on, she was telling that to fork and he’s like, well, you also didn’t.

Tara (01:35:03.368)
but you also didn’t do that. She’s like, yeah, it’s different. Were you planning to fuck me over? Okay then.

AJ (01:35:10.542)
Yeah, you’re right. Yeah. um, anyway. OK. So.

Tara (01:35:22.416)
Yeah, no, I,

really, really had, did not remember this book until about, like I said, several chapters in. I did, it’s really, really awful. Like, it’s not an easy read in some ways, but like the dialogue is on and it’s fun in that regard.

AJ (01:35:36.268)
Yeah.

AJ (01:35:46.167)
Yeah.

Tara (01:35:54.554)
And it’s very satisfying to see that guy get taken down. And it’s also very satisfying to know that that she that she killed that that she killed her husband in self-defense because it’s just like. But then also, like in that in that you’re like, wow, but this is really terrifying, like everything that she went through.

AJ (01:35:57.708)
Yeah.

AJ (01:36:08.151)
You

Alright.

AJ (01:36:20.588)
Yeah.

Tara (01:36:23.645)
Yeah, no, I-

AJ (01:36:24.086)
You can just imagine like, you know, that happening and you’re, you know, being attacked by this person dressed like a devil or whatever and he’s doing horrific things and finally leaves the room anyway and you think it’s all over and then your husband, you know, gets free and starts doing the same thing. Like, that’s gotta be horrifying.

Tara (01:36:45.958)
Right? Like, also, what the fuck was wrong with this man where he was like, I just watched this man attack and force my wife to have sex with him. And now I’m going to kill her for what she did. What? Ew. Like, what it like. He’s awful. Like you literally saw with your own eyes.

AJ (01:37:03.382)
Right. Yeah.

AJ (01:37:12.672)
Yeah, he’s the worst.

Tara (01:37:16.722)
this woman being brutalized and forced to have sex with this man and he was like, I’ll kill you for this. For what? What was she like? God, I hate him more than Kyle. I hate him more than Kyle.

AJ (01:37:24.141)
Yeah.

AJ (01:37:30.316)
Yeah, he was the worst. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Kyle’s a dick, but that guy was evil.

Tara (01:37:40.158)
Kyle sucks,

AJ (01:37:42.818)
Yeah. You’re a seabull.

Tara (01:37:45.372)
Like that woman has she already like the trauma that she had from Kyle I Feel like she probably just went numb. She was like, whatever. This is nothing compared to The life I already live in

AJ (01:37:56.226)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

AJ (01:38:04.12)
So, okay.

Tara (01:38:04.232)
Fuck Anthony Estraza. Yeah.

AJ (01:38:08.898)
and

Tara (01:38:09.946)
And so that’s that’s that book. Welcome back to In Deathland, friends.

AJ (01:38:11.95)
So that’s that. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I don’t know they have any podcast business and I’m kind of, you know, I’m not feeling well so. We did.

Tara (01:38:32.798)
Yeah, we did it. We did it. Anything you guys think we missed, which is very likely because we did. Let us know.

AJ (01:38:44.29)
Well, we’ll probably go over a lot of stuff during we review the reviews. So.

Tara (01:38:47.816)
Well, yeah, but if you have anything you want to let us know regarding that, know, I will happily read those on Review the Reviews.

AJ (01:38:53.421)
Yeah.

AJ (01:38:57.71)
Maybe we should do a, you know, part two of this. Um, so yeah, so, so I don’t, I guess we’re not going to do any podcast business for this episode, but, I want to say that, uh, the new book should come out as we record this in what two weeks. I’m just next week. Are you sure the second?

Tara (01:39:02.258)
Ha ha ha.

Tara (01:39:21.246)
Comes out next week. A week from today. Yeah. The second. Right? Tuesday. Comes out on Tuesday the second.

AJ (01:39:26.444)
The first.

AJ (01:39:33.55)
Okay. So yeah, so what we’re going to do then is Tara and I are going to read that book and we will review that book sometime around the end of September, beginning of October.

And I did, so I didn’t necessarily get a hold of Teresa Carl Sanders who wrote the In Death Cookbook. She got in touch with me and I asked her if she was gonna have any time in the next couple of months.

Tara (01:40:03.56)
Yeah.

AJ (01:40:11.71)
to come back on the show and she said she’d get back to me so I’m not really sure. She hasn’t gotten back to me yet. But I’ll contact her again and see if maybe she’s got some time in maybe not October because that’s when the book comes out but maybe November or December to talk to us. But yeah, that book is coming out as well in October.

Tara (01:40:27.634)
Right.

Tara (01:40:32.67)
That’s exciting.

Tara (01:40:37.367)
awesome. Good for her.

AJ (01:40:37.742)
So, yeah. So I think that’s it.

Tara (01:40:45.533)
Yes.

AJ (01:40:46.446)
for this episode of Podcast in Down. Unless there’s anything else you need to say.

Tara (01:40:52.35)
I do not.

AJ (01:40:56.19)
and you know, again, like Tara said, if you have anything to add, or we miss stuff that you want to just talk about or whatever, get in touch with us and let us know. And you can do that by going to any of our social medias, our Facebook page or Instagram or our Tik TOK or our blue sky or whatever. You can go there and get ahold of us.

you can also send us an email at show at podcast and death dot com you can call the number the cup the number is two zero five four seven six

2753? I don’t know.

Tara (01:41:36.616)
Yeah.

AJ (01:41:41.262)
I have the number here, but I have a light that’s covering it. I was supposed to do a photo shoot with Kaitlyn tomorrow, but I told her that’s probably not the best idea. So, probably wait until she wants new headshots. Anyway, so yeah, get ahold of us if you want to say anything to us about this episode. Or this book.

Tara (01:42:07.844)
book. Yes, thank you.

AJ (01:42:11.369)
and, guess that’s it for this episode of Podcasts and Death. So for Podcasts and Death, this is AJ. And we’ll see you next week, Bye.

Tara (01:42:18.482)
This is Tara.

Bye guys.

Tara (01:42:26.406)
Your clock went hard at the end.

AJ (01:42:28.364)
I know, I know.